Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
I would vote to re-instate the Genshin Expy examples anyway since Hoyo does reuse character designs and VAs for their other works. This strikes me as Hello being unfamiliar with Hoyo's practice than anything, though they still should've consulted the Expy cleanup thread first before deleting them unilaterally.
I can't speak for the DMC examples though since I haven't played the games.
Edited by VintageEmmaIt looks like these weren't deleted by the discussion thread (as you've noted, there was no discussion) but by Hello83433 specifically. So I'd bring those up int he discussion thread to put them bacl.
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupI'm the person who added the entry that Dante was an Expy of both Cobra and Joseph Joestar, and I based it on this official interview where Kamiya was interviewed by EGM and says so
◊. If anything that is the least disputable kind of example of Expy, and the only reason it might not qualify is because sometimes Expy only allows a single character to be referenced, in which case it should be moved, not deleted.
No need to holler, I'm here. Anyways, to address the points
DMC was addressed in the Expy cleanup thread
and determined to not be an example. Expy is always one other character. I could have sworn I linked to that post in my edit reason but my mistake if I didn't.
As for the Genshin ones, I thought they were pretty obviously misuse. One of the main points of criteria is that a superficial traits similarities are not enough, nor is sharing voice actors, nor similar model/art styles which is why I linked to the mod post in the thread. The most important criteria is the narrative similarity in the work, to the point two characters who have different narrative purposes is an automatic disqualifier for expy and none of these examples discussed that, only physical similarities. Though if needed, we can move these over to the expy thread.
CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floorsYeah, I agree that a higher-level trope like that is probably necessary. I'm also thinking it would help to have a trope for "character who is deliberately based off another character by the same creators" that isn't just Captain Ersatz (which implies they don't have the right to the character anymore, when in many cases they do) or Recurring Element (it might not be that recurring), and which is more specific than Author Appeal.
Anyway, do I have permission to add the Cobra example back as Composite Character? The source I provided unambiguously states in clear English that Kamiya was indeed influenced by Cobra and Joseph Joestar, which is the main reason it was not considered for a migration in the thread linked.
Edited by AlleyOopAh well, I didn't notice that the DMC example was brought up in the thread because the Edit reason linked the first page instead of the actual parts (on page 30) discussing it, so I assumed that Hello deleted it without discussion. Yeah my bad, I guess I jumped on the gun calling it an overzealous deletion because of the link in the edit reason alone.
Initially, I was thinking that at best, the DMC example (or the Cobra part of it) could have been moved or salvaged to a different trope (or a Trivia like Word of God) instead of being completely deleted because there is a statement from the creator mentioning a bit of trivia regarding the character(s). I also noticed just now (and as mentioned by AlleyOop) that there's a Composite Character on Dante's page that mentions Cobra being an influence on Dante. Guess I should've also checked that before I made this query.
If that's really the case for the Genshin examples (especially the requirement on the narrative part), then damn, I don't know what to do with the Honkai: Star Rail Expy examples anymore (Star Rail is also made by the same devs as Genshin) since they also follow the trend of what the developer does when it comes to reusing character concepts/appearances/lore/voice actors from their older games.
This reminds me of that time in the Discussion tab
of Star Rail where I mentioned other tropers constantly moving Mythology Gag examples into another trope like Company Cross-References or Expy (there's an obvious confusion of what trope to use, when they were originally written under Mythology Gag). I even brought it up on the Expy Cleanup thread
but got no responses. Now, it would seem like plenty of Honkai: Star Rail expy examples might also be axed for being misused, even if the context within them can be verified or salvaged to a better trope? Though if this discussion might be better moved to the Expy Clean-Up thread, I'd probably bring it there later.
I also think that at best, there should've been a trope that covers a "character who is deliberately based off another character by the same creators" (as mentioned by AlleyOop) if it's not covered by Expy. The discussion that I had with other tropers in the Star Rail tab say Company Cross-References may not even be the right trope for it. Edited by DanteVin With Great Power, Comes Great Motivation
That's misusing what Composite Character is for. This implies Dante is from the source materials Kamiya cite, which he is not. DMC is not a direct adaptation of either JJBA or Space Adventure Cobra, he's just inspired by the two characters. That interview is important Word of God trivia, but Dante doesn't fit either Expy or Composite Character.
So uh, with what this ATT query is currently heading to, the info about "DMC Dante is inspired by Cobra and Joseph Joestar, as confirmed in an interview with Hideki Kamiya" is still best moved to Trivia, right? But now, it's not a valid Expy nor Composite Character example?
I actually did update an existing Trivia item on the Trivia.Devil May Cry 1 page to cover it at least, including the interview screenshot provided by troper AlleyOop.
But there is still a Composite Character example on Dante's page which also similarly covered that info. What's going to happen to that then? Deleted?
With Great Power, Comes Great MotivationNah, I think the Composite Character entry is pretty clear-cut. Turns out I had a brain fart and that was the entry I added, not the Expy one, and usually that trope is more flexible as long as the entry isn't pulling the inspiration completely out of its ass (and I posted a link to proof so I know it wasn't made up).
A Trivia entry could supplement it too, but I think we can leave that particular one for now.
No, that should be removed. The link is irrelevant; the issue is Composite Character is misused, and that info is misplaced. There's nothing on Composite Character that says anything about a character's inspirations. That's not the same as "A character in an adaptation of one work has traits from multiple characters from its source material.", to quote from the laconic and playing with pages.
There is no need for this info to be shoehorned into Dante's character page. The trivia page is fine.

There's been a couple of Expy deletions that seem questionable. For example:
However, looking at the recent posts in the Expy Cleanup thread
, there seems to be no prior discussion to check if the examples are indeed valid or not. Is this a case of overzealous deletions? Benefit of the doubt may say that some examples fit other tropes better than Expy, but it seems like they just acted on their own.
Some of the Genshin Expy examples have a trend of the developer (miHoYo) basing the name, appearance, traits and even hiring the same voice actors of an older character into their newer copy, even if it's in a different game (i.e. Raiden Mei to Raiden Ei and Yae Sakura to Yae Miko). Yes, the devs have been doing this for some of their characters for a long time and even up to this day, and if you're familiar with the works involved, they're unambiguous. I think at least some deleted examples are still valid, but the fact that it was not discussed in the thread raises some eyebrows.
In fact, if you know DMC behind-the-scenes, there's another supplementary material (3142 Graphic Arts artbook page 200) where a staff mentioned that Dante was imagined as Cobra when they made his fighting motions with a certain weapon.
I just assume that the entire paragraph was deleted because other tropers added a bunch of anime and manga characters in comparison, which does make the Expy example invalid, but the Cobra one should've at least been kept because it's been confirmed.
It makes one wonder if the Expy Cleanup thread is deleting some Expy examples even if they can actually be valid, especially the second scenario I mentioned above. It really seems like clean-up efforts like these are best handled by tropers who are more familiar with the works.
I remember there's an Improper TRS Cleanup thread
which pointed out that some tropers are overzealously deleting things, though that thread seems to be inactive for a while now, so I'll ask here in ATT instead.
Edited by DanteVin