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MacronNotes (Captain)
2023-04-16 14:44:45

You can't ping people to ATT (also the ping markup is done incorrectly because ~ goes before @ and / goes after the @). You'll have to PM the link to the ATT thread to Imjustme

Edited by MacronNotes Macron's notes
Eievie Since: Feb, 2014
2023-04-16 14:52:20

^ Thanks, I just did that

Arctimon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2023-04-16 14:55:07

For the record, Age Lift is not YMMV, so it can't be subjective. You saying that you're going to write about how it "does and doesn't work" is weird because it's wrong. Either the Age Lift happens or it doesn't. There's not any analysis behind it.

Edited by Arctimon
Amonimus (Sergeant)
2023-04-16 15:29:41

Age Lift needs to say only one thing. Was 5 in the book, is 14 in the show. Everything else is irrelevant.

Dawson Casting needs only to say that the character is 14 while portrayed by a 18.

Also Age Lift isn't a YMMV thing, so what Imjustme suggests breaks the site's policy, it's not even really arguable.

Edited by Amonimus TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Eievie Since: Feb, 2014
2023-04-16 15:43:49

To be clear, what's up for debate is not whether an Age Lift occurs, but whether that age lift creates an Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole.

Let's please not get into edit-warring allegations. I specifically DMed that them to talk it out to avoid that, and now we're trying to get mediation. We may not have done things perfectly every step of the way, but right now we're clearly making a concerted effort to do things right both in terms of obeying rules and not bulldozing each other.

As for ^^ and ^^^, let me make sure I'm hearing you right:

You're encouraging trope listing to be as minimalistic as possible. You only want the core elements of a trope mentioned. The details of how that trope plays out, or interacts with other parts of the story, should be omitted whenever possible?

Edited by Eievie
Amonimus (Sergeant)
2023-04-16 15:47:15

See Clear, Concise, Witty. While being more detailed how the trope occurs in the work is nice actually, Bailey Bass being 18 is irrelevant to Age Lift since Claudia is not 18 in the story.

If Caludia angsts about looking like a child despite not looking like one, that's a separate Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole example.

e: You can't "avoid" an edit war if it already happened.

Edited by Amonimus TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
MacronNotes (Captain)
2023-04-16 16:09:31

Since this was an edit war on Imjustme's part because they removed the same section of text twice without consensus, I have issued suspension.

Macron's notes
Octoya Since: Jul, 2014
2023-04-16 16:11:33

Basically what you want to write is what is commonly known as a "tangent". You are no longer talking about the trope's usage in the work when you get into stuff like casting choices or discussing separate tropes like Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole.

Also I would argue that yes, it is subjective whether or not the actress' apparent age causes an actual plot hole in the work, even if it is an opinion most people would end up agreeing on. What The Hell Casting Agency might be of interest to you in this case?

Edited by Octoya
Vilui Since: May, 2009
2023-04-16 16:17:34

There may be an inconsistency if characters say things that are no longer accurate in the adaptation, but there is no plot hole.

Just like a doghouse is a house for dogs, a plothole is a hole in the plot. Not characterisation or worldbuilding or logic. The plot.

Eievie Since: Feb, 2014
2023-04-16 16:27:02

Alright, then then the question on the table is whether a separate Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole listing — which Age Lift and Dawson Casting provide backstory but do not relate directly — is YMMV or not.

Please put a pin in this and wait until Imjustme has a change to chime in.

Edited by Eievie
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2023-04-16 16:31:52

Well, since they've been suspended it may be awhile, editing bans often include ATT bans.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Excessive-Menace (Fifth Year at Tropey's)
2023-04-16 16:32:24

I know you're waiting for Imjustme to get unsuspended, but Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole isn't a YMMV item, it's an objective trope.

SING TO ME, LEND ME THE SONG OF BLASPHEMY
Eievie Since: Feb, 2014
2023-04-16 16:41:56

As the "victim" of the edit war, I really wish you hadn't done that. With them unable to contribute now, I don't see how we can work this out peacefully like I was really trying to do.

But I guess this is where we're at now, though, so moving forward:

It relates to the plot insofar as Claudia has a whole Not Growing Up Sucks plotline that hinges on how young she is or isn't. It's not just an offhanded comment.

It's also perhaps worth noting that the series itself plays it both ways. When Claudia tries to present herself as an adult once, one person laughs at her and says she looks like a kid playing dress-up in her mom's clothes, while another person believes her when she claims to be a baby-faced 19-year-old.

Tremmor19 (Y2: Electric Boogaloo)
2023-04-16 16:52:12

i can see that being an adaptation induced plothole, although i havent seen this particular adaptation— an adult woman of normal physical development playing a 14 year old, referring to herself as "prepubescent" does seem like at least a downplayed plot hole— or maybe an Informed Attribute? since it really doesnt match her appearance.

Not sure exactly what trope but it does seem worth noting, beyond just normal dawson casting

Edited by Tremmor19
emeriin Since: Jan, 2001
2023-04-16 16:54:09

I mean I'm in my thirties and I've been considered my actual age and 14. I know they weren't allowed younger actors because child laws, so Acceptable Breaks from Reality?

Edited by emeriin
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2023-04-16 16:54:46

IDK who you're talking to by saying "you", the mods made a decision and we're just explaining the issue it causes. (Also, the "victim" of the war is the wiki itself, not the other editor. Edit wars are bad because the wiki is not a place for a dispute, objectively, they did war over he example)

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Eievie Since: Feb, 2014
2023-04-16 16:58:40

^^^ Classifying it as Informed Attribute sounds like a reasonable way to handle it, I like that idea.

It is like other Adaptation Induced Plot Holes in the basic structure of "in the source material, X and Y went together; the adaptation changed X and not Y and this creates a discrepancy." But since the discrepancy is visual rather than detail-related, I can see how it's more structurally similar to the discrepancies of something like Adaptational Attractiveness.

^^ Once again, it's not just about whether she's plausibly 14, but specifically prepubescent.

Edited by Eievie
Synchronicity MOD (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2023-04-16 19:35:22

For the record I am for the removal. Tropes Are Tools — whether or not you think it "worked" or "landed" is not relevant to the fact that she was 5 in the source material and a teenager now. Neither is info about New Orleans labor laws. It is not a "plot hole" either — out of universe details don't matter for that, what matters is what the work tells us to believe.

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