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crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
22nd Apr, 2022 12:59:50 PM

Just cut it; the example completely lacks context about why the Kyubey would be considered a Heel in the first place, nor does it describe why they'd be considered a Face after a change. (Barely mentions Madoka's wish as the cause of the change.)

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Amonimus (Sergeant)
22nd Apr, 2022 01:03:48 PM

Note: Gen Urobuchi's DVD commentary states that Kyubey doesn't have a gender. I'll wait for others for input, but being a magical alien and all, I'm defaulting to "they" for now.

And yes, if examples are ambiguously written they can just go entirely.

Edited by Amonimus TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
YuriHaru567 Since: Feb, 2020
22nd Apr, 2022 01:07:34 PM

^^ Just cut the Heel–Face Turn example.

^ I am aware that Kyubey technically doesn't have a gender; I'm just saying that most official sources refer to Kyubey with he/him pronouns.

Any other consensus?

Edited by YuriHaru567 Trans rights are human rights!
Tabs MOD Since: Jan, 2001
22nd Apr, 2022 01:30:15 PM

What's boku? And how is Kyubey referred in the anime itself?

Vilui Since: May, 2009
22nd Apr, 2022 01:33:04 PM

Kyubey isn't human or humanoid and is basically an alien animal. Sources using he/him are probably doing so because they consider that a default pronoun. I would personally use "it" if I were writing the page from scratch, but I wouldn't emend examples by other people using "he" or "they", and I don't see it as important to be consistent.

Amonimus (Sergeant)
22nd Apr, 2022 01:38:54 PM

Boku as in Bokukko pronoun, I wouldn't make it a solid evidence as it's more of a style choice than self-identification.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
22nd Apr, 2022 05:15:51 PM

Boku is a Japanese word that means "I". It is gendered in its usage such that the vast majority of people who use it are men, particularly young boys. It's a stylistic choice in so far as any word a character uses to describe themself is a stylistic choice. Outside of "I/me" and "you" pronouns, pronouns in Japanese aren't used as frequently as in other languages. You often just use the person's name where you would say "he/she/they".

To me, I'd be inclined to allow using he/it/they pronouns while referring to Kyubey

Edited by amathieu13
bowserbros Since: May, 2014
23rd Apr, 2022 10:31:56 AM

There was a similar ATT thread recently, which spun off into a Short-Term Projects thread, about another genderless character who's exclusively referred to in official media with he/him pronouns. Because of that last bit, the consensus on the second thread was to stick with he/him pronouns, so I'm inclined to say that the same standard should apply here (especially given that this site prioritizes the most recent official English localization over other translations).

Edited by bowserbros Be kind.
RallyBot2 Since: Nov, 2013
23rd Apr, 2022 10:53:57 AM

^ The "most recent" thing only applies to names, not plot or character details.

As was the case with Toaster in the linked thread, Kyubey is referred to as male in-universe.

bowserbros Since: May, 2014
23rd Apr, 2022 10:52:37 PM

^Yeah that second sentence is what I'm getting at; good to have the English localization thing clarified, but regardless, the linked thread came to the consensus that Toaster should be referred to on the wiki solely with he/him pronouns as that's what he goes by in-universe, so the same should go for Kyubey for the same reason.

Be kind.
crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
24th Apr, 2022 06:59:36 AM

Kyubey also refers to themselves as a collective species. One Kyubey is killed and another steps out from around a corner, continuing the conversation as if nothing happened. Male genders aren't wrong, I just would tend to use "they" to reflect that they're a collective.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Amonimus (Sergeant)
24th Apr, 2022 07:46:10 AM

I suppose he/it/they can be used interchangibly unless context suggests otherwise, though slashed pick would look odd and preferebly examples should pick either. Not sure about "she".

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
monotrematum Since: Nov, 2021
24th Apr, 2022 08:40:30 AM

I would think "it" suffices since it truly is an inhuman character meant to evoke horror, rather than a non-binary character, and "he" is really just for audience conventions at a time they're not longer needed (given there's been more visibility on non-binary people since the dub)

crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
24th Apr, 2022 10:20:28 AM

^^ Female pronouns are the only ones I'd object to on the page. If there's a question on gender/slashing, I'd want us to have a policy against doing so (unless there's a weird situation of "When Alice/Bob go to the haunted house, she/he are spooked by a rat" and for some reason "Alice and Bob" doesn't work).

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
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