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WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2022-01-19 13:34:59

I think this is a trope talk question.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
good-morning Since: Nov, 2021
2022-01-19 13:48:38

Yes, maybe the description, but in the title I wanted to know if there is another index or page in the wiki explaining intertextuality.

Edited by good-morning oh hey how are you doing?
Twiddler MOD (On A Trope Odyssey)
2022-01-19 13:50:04

^ Not that I can tell from a cursory search.

Eiryu Since: Dec, 2013
2022-01-19 14:12:59

Derivative Works isn't the same as intertextuality.

Arctimon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2022-01-19 15:09:33

Renaming is out of the question because Shout-Out is a pretty well-known concept, and no one has ever heard of intertextuality.

Malady (X-Troper)
2022-01-19 15:27:12

Well, yes, Obligatory Intertextuality does appear to be what we mean by Shout-Out, just with a more meaningful name, that "texts" "inter" each other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertextuality#Types

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
good-morning Since: Nov, 2021
2022-01-19 16:54:29

^ thank you very much, that was what I was thinking about. I'm planning to do an Intertextuality draft soon, maybe I can link the index.

^^ I'd argue intertext is very well-known, and it is almost as integral to fiction history as terms such as climax, verissimilitude, metalanguage and bathos, but I agree that renaming the index is redundant.

Edited by good-morning oh hey how are you doing?
Arctimon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2022-01-19 17:21:07

^And yet it's not. It seems like you're just trying to change a name just for the heck of it.

WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2022-01-19 17:21:48

I for one haven't heard of Intertext before now.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Malady (X-Troper)
2022-01-19 20:27:30

Yea, Intertextuality is relatively new and academic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertextuality#History

Says it was coined by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Kristeva

Born 24 June 1941. If we assume she was 20 when she coined it, then it's only been around ~50 years.

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Hello83433 (Lucky 7)
2022-01-19 20:31:43

^^^^ I'm a writing major, and I have not heard of intertextuality. I have heard of and studied the other four listed however.

We can put a sentence in the description that the (the dictionary calls it/more formal term for it/otherwise known as) intertextuality, but Shout-Out has way too many wicks and inbound links for a rename.

^ Yep, compared to the others (which are all Older Than Steam at the least: verisimilitude is Older Than Feudalism), Intertextuality is ... Older Than Cable TV (the book she wrote in which she publicizes the concept was published in 1980).

Edited by Hello83433 CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
Eiryu Since: Dec, 2013
2022-01-19 20:48:44

Well. I majored in writing and definitely spent time discussing intertextuality. And I’ve been out of school for a while.

It’s not that new. It’s one of the basic foundations of literary criticism.

Do I think we need a page on it here? Probably not. But it certainly is not an obscure concept.

Edited by Eiryu
laserviking42 Since: Oct, 2015
2022-01-19 20:52:41

From what I could quickly research the term was coined in the mid 70s.

However, intertextuality refers to the shared elements between whatever works are being compared. That is not the same thing as a Shout-Out. I really don't see a need to shoehorn one of the most used tropes on the site into a formal literary analysis concept.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Malady (X-Troper)
2022-01-19 21:02:05

^ - Are you talking about Intertextuality in general? Because it seems that Obligatory is the one that is most Shout-Out-y.

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2022-01-19 21:44:17

^ Not really? Shout-Out doesn't inherently make comparison, it's just a reference.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Graveheart Since: Nov, 2021
2022-01-19 21:45:24

At best, a Shout-Out is a subcategory of a subcategory of intertextuality.

Saying that Shout-Out should be renamed to Intertextuality would be akin to saying "all grasshoppers are insects; therefore, all insects are grasshoppers".

laserviking42 Since: Oct, 2015
2022-01-19 21:54:42

This wouldn't be the place to do any renaming anyways, but nobody has shown that Shout-Out is confusing or misleading in any way. There is no reason to change the name.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
harryhenry Since: Jan, 2012
2022-01-20 00:38:12

Intertextuality is a known concept, but I'm not sure why it needs to be renamed, especially given the monumental task that a rename would be, given how popular the trope is.

MacronNotes (Captain)
2022-01-20 01:06:02

I don’t think ATT is the right place for this conversation (and the query is getting long).

I think it’s best to make a Trope Talk thread for this topic.

Macron's notes
GastonRabbit MOD (General of TV Troops)
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