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Amonimus (Sergeant)
2022-01-16 19:43:45

It's probably an old change because I don't know how different it was before.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Fighteer MOD (Time Abyss)
2022-01-16 19:52:55

I'm not aware of any organized push to change [note] to [labelnote], nor should there be unless there's an underlying reason for it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Unsung Since: Jun, 2016
2022-01-16 22:43:26

It's changing it from just [ note ] to [ labelnote:* ] (with the asterisk), from the ones I've seen. I don't know that it's all one person and I don't remember how many pages are affected, I haven't been keeping close track, but I saw it again today (the image caption on the page for Community, edited by Knight Vizier) and I remember seeing it a few times before. Should it be changed back?

Edited by Unsung
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2022-01-16 23:52:47

I vaguely recall seeing something about [note] being the standard?

Checking Text Formatting Rules, it says "if you don't have anything to say in the label, regular [[note]] markup is preferred".

RoundRobin Since: Jun, 2018
2022-01-17 00:10:11

It's changing it from just [ note ] to [ labelnote:* ] (with the asterisk)

I have also noticed that. TBH, it's annoying because the * is much harder to click than the [note], especially if you're on mobile or tablet.

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
harryhenry Since: Jan, 2012
2022-01-17 00:22:01

I prefer the [ note ] format myself. Is this a case of Single-Issue Wonk by a few editors?

Amonimus (Sergeant)
2022-01-17 03:20:36

asterisk is just harder to click on

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Ngamer01 Since: Oct, 2010
2022-01-17 04:35:06

Notes and Labelnotes says either note type can be used, but with extreme care. Could it be a case if somebody not respecting whatever note type was placed first on a page?

That Administrivia page also says either note type shouldn't be used if it makes a page prone to footnote fever and hard to read as a result.

Edited by Ngamer01
RoseAndHeather (Edited uphill both ways)
2022-01-17 07:19:13

Asterisks for notes used to be common way back in the day but have been superseded by the 'notes' format for.... awhile? I dunno. Pandemic time has messed with my brain. It was back in the Before Times, at any rate. Anyway, maybe someone thinks that's still the standard?

I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.
GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2022-01-17 08:19:40

I prefer the "note" style, because, as has been pointed out, it's hard to click on the asterisk when using a touch-screen (on my cellphone it's almost impossible to hit the tiny little *).

Asterisks are of course a very common standard in printed text, and the troper(s) going around changing the notes may think it looks better and more standard that way, but TV tropes is not a printed medium and what works in print doesn't work on touchscreens.

Edited by GnomeTitan
WaterBlap Since: May, 2014
2022-01-17 09:22:03

Notes and Labelnotes explains not to use the hottip markup, but I guess someone forgot to mention why we phased that out. I recall that the hottip markup only worked with the asterisk and so pages with footnotes would have just this tiny character that you'd need to click. That wasn't so bad in the late Naughts early Tens, but then web culture shifted to be more mobile-friendly and we all realized how impossible it is to click on those asterisks on the mobile version of the site, so there was a push to phase out the hottip markup because of the asterisks.

You'll notice that, on Notes and Labelnotes, the labelnote example does not use an asterisk but rather a word, because that's the point of using a labelnote instead of [note] markup: you use a different word than just "note." You could use an asterisk but that's kind of reverting to a previous problem.

To quote the page about hottip markup:

There is/was an old markup called a hottip. They are no longer working properly — sometimes not appearing at all — and as such are being phased out. If you see a hottip on a wiki page, please either integrate the text into the article, or replace them with the note or labelnote markup, as appropriate.

Edited by WaterBlap Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2022-01-17 09:33:35

So should we perhaps expand the administrivia page to explain why using an asterisk is a bad idea?

And should we do a campaign to change hard-to-click note symbols to something that's easier to click (like the original "note")?

If it's just a small number of tropers changing notes to labelnote:*, then perhaps we should start by messaging them.

wingedcatgirl MOD (Holding A Herring)
2022-01-17 10:17:48

Regarding this, for the record that was added by (us) and we have long made a point of changing labelnotes with zero-information labels into regular notes.

We don't want to push our own opinion and pretend it's consensus, but as far as we can tell there is no logical reason to use single-asterisk labelnotes instead of regular notes, and several logical reasons to do the opposite.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
bowserbros Since: May, 2014
2022-01-17 10:37:19

IIRC the only situation where "labelnote" is outright needed is Memetic Mutation; other than that, there isn't much of a reason to use anything other than "note" beyond very situational cases.

Be kind.
RoseAndHeather (Edited uphill both ways)
2022-01-17 10:50:59

I'm with wingedcatgirl. And I say that as someone who very rarely even looks at the site on mobile.

I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.
RoundRobin Since: Jun, 2018
2022-01-17 12:24:21

^^^ Couldn't agree more. [thumbsup]

Edited by RoundRobin - Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
Unsung Since: Jun, 2016
2022-01-18 04:03:59

That sounds about right.

GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2022-01-18 04:47:01

winbgedcatgirl: It seems we have consensus, at least here.

So should we do anything about this? Is it just one troper who changes notes to labelnote:*?

Amonimus (Sergeant)
2022-01-18 04:55:13

There needs to be a list of these changes besides just one Community edit to understand if there's really some wave going and what to do with those. Other than that there's not really else to do besides just reverting the Community note.

Edited by Amonimus TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Unsung Since: Jun, 2016
2022-01-18 05:17:56

I don't know if there's going to be so many as to justify an extended organized search, others may have a better idea. I'm also not sure that it's any one person, it may be a few people who saw it and thought that was the policy. I did find one other just now in Knight Vizier's edits, the image caption for Anime.Cowboy Bebop, but I can revert them if I see them again and I'll leave a link to this thread and Administrivia.Notes And Labelnotes. Edit: Reverted those two for now. Hopefully I didn't jump the gun. I won't continue the spree for now.

Edited by Unsung
WaterBlap Since: May, 2014
2022-01-18 08:31:09

At the very least we can update Notes and Labelnotes to tell people that they should not use the labelnote markup to insert asterisks on a page and that the labelnote markup ought to be used for words other than "note."

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
MyFinalEdits (Spin-off Series)
2022-01-18 08:39:13

A bit late, but I support using "note" as default, while the Labelnote is for a customized header for the note itself (like "Explanation" for Memetic Mutation elaborations and the like or "Top to bottom"/"Left to right" when mentioning character/work names in image captions).

135 -> 180 -> 273 -> 191 -> 188 -> 230 -> 300 -> 311
GnomeTitan Since: Aug, 2013
2022-01-18 10:45:18

^^Seconded. I don't think everybody is aware of how hard (or impossible) it is to click the tiny "*" on a cellphone screen.

I think the adminstrivia page should make it clear that this is the reason why we shouldn't use "labelnote:*" because otherwise they may think it's just some weird, stylistic thing which they can ignore without causing problems.

Edited by GnomeTitan
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2022-01-18 11:26:13

That page needs to be taken to Outdated Pages in general. It doesn't mention the note tag glitch or spoiler tagged notes or anything either.

Edited by WarJay77 Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
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