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Honestly, I can see we are never going to see eye to eye on this, so can we just drop it? I just want to be left alone.
Sure, but you could have done that before denying my sources and removing it a second time.
^ Can we please be civil? You've been extremely aggressive every time I have tried to communicate with you and I'm feeling very attacked.
I apologize if I've been overly-aggressive. But you're the one that dismissed my three sources, told me that you had no intention to change your opinion, removed the example, and then started saying you wanted to be "left alone" when I brought it to ATT.
If you want to leave it alone, I'm not going to stop you. But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop my criticism of the edit you made.
Edited by NubianSatyress
Can I ask someone else to weigh in on this? Drakos has seemingly washed their hands of the issue, but I don't want to re-add the example unless others agree.
it seems like a valid example to me, especially with proof of it, and it strikes me as quite suspicious for Drakos to act the way they did when, as far as i can tell, they're the only one who's broken any rules over it.
I concur with Nubian. It seems their sources are more correct and varied .
Yeah it seems like Nubian's found ample evidence to back up her claim.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
It's... a myth. They're pretty elastic on these things so even without sources I'd be inclined to believe that there's plenty of variations on any particular founding myth. But the sources make it pretty definite.
Also, while Nubian is being firm, I hardly think she's being aggressive. At least in this ATT, I haven't checked edit-histories or Discussion pages and obviously don't have access to P Ms. Drakos, if someone standing their ground in a minor disagreement comes across as attacking then that's a problem when it comes to wiki collaboration. Of course, if there's something I don't know, you can disregard that but I had to say my piece.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
I mean, I think I may have been a bit curt in our P Ms, due to Drakos seeming rather dismissive themself. While I did not use insulting or degrading language, I'm well aware that I become more blunt in my wording the more focused I get on a debate.
So like I said before, I apologize if my wording came across as aggressive.
That being said, I'll readd the example for now, since everyone has currently agreed that it fits.
The real source of this particular myth is St. Augustine's City of God (book 18, chapter 9). How do I know? Because the blog you quoted, @Nubian, actually says it. You could have made this much easier if you had given the City of God as a source, instead of a YouTube video.
You can read the chapter from City of God on this page
(scroll down to chapter 9). You will find that in Augustine's account, the gods do not appear in person. The people of Athens only notice an olive tree growing and a well springing up, and the rest follows from the oracle interpreting this. The YouTube video is a mash-up of several variants of the Poseidon-Athena contest, producing a version of the contest which is told in no ancient source.
When I first added the example, the video was the only thing I had ever seen that related the myth. I'm not a mythology scholar. I saw an "educational" video talking about a myth that fit a trope, and I added the example to the page. That's all.
Furthermore, whether gods showed up in person or not is irrelevant to the example. The example is purely about how women (including Athena herself) were blamed for angering Poseidon, culminating in women being forbidden from voting as well as other rights. THAT part of the myth (which is the part Drakos 25 claimed was untrue) is also supported by Chapter 9 of your link. That's the main point that the example is trying to convey; any other details — whether the gods showed up in person, whether Athena was called Minerva, and whether Poseidon was dressed in a tunic or a t-shirt and jeans, are superfluous details which could be tweaked/edited as necessary without dismissing the entire myth as "untrue".
As Larkmarn said — it's a myth. I can't comb through every single ancient text to confirm it, but debating whether or not gods literally or figuratively appeared in a myth or just sent "symbols" of their power seems like an irrelevant hill to die on. And even then, that seems to be contentious, because Wikipedia sources this book that claims Poseidon literally struck the ground with his trident to create the spring water. Sure, maybe that one is a modern reinterpretation of the myth too, but again that seems irrelevant.
I don't know what the purpose of your post is, Lord Gro, other than an attempt to attack/discredit me.
Edited by NubianSatyress
Tropers.Drakos25 has removed, readded (after I questioned them) and now re-removed an entry on Womanliness as Pathos. Here is the entry in question:
In addition to the video sourced in the example itself, when I brought this up to Drakos, they stated (paraphrasing) that they had "sixteen years of studying everything" about Greek myth and found "zero evidence" supporting that claim.
I then pointed to three
different
sources
which backed up the aforementioned video's interpretation of the myth. To which Drakos then replied that the first was a blog, the second "has gotten information wrong before" and the last is just a "reinterpretation". They then re-removed the entry and closed off further discussion by saying they would stand with their opinion.
So basically, I have four independent sources to back up this version of a myth (myths, I might add, rarely being clear-cut) while Drakos's only source right now basically amounts to "trust me". Edited by NubianSatyress