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Synchronicity MOD (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
2021-05-31 22:01:49

For what it's worth, I only link the creator if:

  • The work doesn't have a page, just so it can be crosswicked (and if it gets a page, hopefully someone will move the entry from the Creator/ page)
  • The trope appears multiple times across the creator's body of work

I agree that it's not necessary otherwise.

Florien Since: Aug, 2019
2021-05-31 22:24:20

I'm not aware of noting that a work was made by a troper in every example from those works being a policy. It's probably just fine to note that "hey this person is also a troper, look" and "The author is this person" on the work's page itself. I'd say remove it from the trope examples.

Ghilz Since: Jan, 2001
2021-05-31 22:33:06

To clarify, the examples don't point he's a troper, they just link to his creator page. You'd only notice he's also a troper by looking at edit history & the forums.

crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2021-05-31 23:39:57

It's just that we don't usually list the author of a work in an example
Yes, we should, because an author is generally going to make multiple books and then each book's example would become a subbullet under the author's name.
  • Creator's Title: context
Becomes
  • Creator:
    • Title 1: context
    • Title 2: context

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-05-31 23:41:28

Well, assuming there's multiple examples in the different books... But wouldn't it sort of be the same as saying:

If we don't do it for other mediums, it feels weird to do it here unless necessary.

Edited by WarJay77 Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2021-05-31 23:48:57

We do the exact same thing for Art and Music; the Creator tends to be the more prominent figure, while in other mediums it tends to be more of a collective effort.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-05-31 23:56:16

Well, I always thought that was because people were more likely to recognize the creator than individual works. Not many people know a lot specific paintings by name, but they'd recognize the artist. With books it's different; people don't usually need to know the author of the book to recognize what it is. It'd feel just as weird to keep reminding people that, say, JK Rowling wrote Harry Potter. At a certain point, the book is more important than who made it, and unless there is multiple examples of the creator I just don't see a point to repeatedly listing the author's name.

Edited by WarJay77 Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010
2021-06-01 02:09:04

Is there a way to bring his attention to this thread (I know the forum ping formatting doesn't work here)? I've interacted with the guy in both OTC and a different site, and he seems reasonable enough, so it couldn't hurt to just talk to him directly about it.

CrypticMirror Since: Jan, 2001
2021-06-01 04:22:08

You can message them directly. I just did and asked if they could pop by.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
2021-06-01 09:17:08

I'm happy to stop adding "by" or remove my name from any works to conform to policy. I don't want to cause any trouble. I do love troping, though, and often share the pages with my fans at my fanclub.

Edited by CharlesPhipps Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
MichaelKatsuro Since: Apr, 2011
2021-06-01 09:39:40

Honest question: Can this really count as anything even close to advertising? Nobody's gonna buy a book just because it's mentioned that C.T. Phipps wrote it. Unless they know about him already, and know he writes good stuff, and that's still not advertising; it's the reader drawing conclusions.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
2021-06-01 09:43:29

Honestly, I thought adding the "By X Author" was how it was supposed to be done when there was a creator page.

But yes, I'll not do it as a matter of course from now on.

Edited by CharlesPhipps Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
jjjj2 Since: Jul, 2015
2021-06-01 09:56:27

Unless I'm misunderstanding, Crazysamaritan (a mod), doesn't have a problem with what you're doing.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
MichaelKatsuro Since: Apr, 2011
2021-06-01 10:01:51

And I agree with said mod. If you're gonna trope a book anyway, there's nothing wrong with mentioning the writer.

mightymewtron Since: Oct, 2012
2021-06-01 10:45:22

That subbullet thing looks like a big indentation annoyance. Unless the books are part of the same series/continuity, or this is worth noting as a Creator Thumbprint, I think it's easier to just list them separately, and mention the creator if necessary.

We do the exact same thing for Art and Music; the Creator tends to be the more prominent figure, while in other mediums it tends to be more of a collective effort.

While I understand the point about collective efforts, aren't most of the creators for the music genre in the Music/ namespace anyway? Not really the same comparison.

EDIT: As for the main concern, I don't think this is an issue, as crosswicking creator pages alongside the work pages is helpful.

Edited by mightymewtron I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Twiddler MOD (On A Trope Odyssey)
2021-06-01 11:51:29

Unless the books are part of the same series/continuity, or this is worth noting as a Creator Thumbprint, I think it's easier to just list them separately, and mention the creator if necessary.

I agree.

crazysamaritan MOD Since: Apr, 2010
2021-06-01 20:07:08

or this is worth noting as a Creator Thumbprint,
unless there is multiple examples of the creator I just don't see a point to repeatedly listing the author's name.
And how can you notice if it is a Creator Thumbprint / multiple examples if the works aren't linked by the creator?

when there was a creator page.
And when there isn't. The Red Link policy is there to encourage the page creation.

people were more likely to recognize the creator than individual works
There Is No Such Thing as Notability; we don't care about who/what is more famous.

Edited by crazysamaritan Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
WarJay77 (Troper Knight)
2021-06-01 21:11:28

That's not really what that rule is though? I'd understand if I'd said something along the lines of "these authors aren't famous enough to have a page", but the notability rule doesn't mean all information is worth reiterating in every example. What about Clear, Concise, Witty? It's less Concise to keep saying the author's name, but there's no clarity sacrificed in most cases when you don't have the name, so it seems like a non-issue to just leave the author's name out. In other cases, though, the clarity is hurt by not mentioning the creator.

Like, I'll be honest, I'm generally unconcerned about whether the names are given or not. It doesn't bother me either way, but I do think it's unnecessary in a majority of cases.

Edited by WarJay77 Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
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