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If you spot an article that has more natter than one person can handle without losing their lunch, report it here.

Fix as much as you can bear to, then call on us for help. wink

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Feb 25th 2024 at 10:26:27 AM

FridgeGuy2016 No-lifer from United States Since: Feb, 2016
No-lifer
#1651: Jun 30th 2020 at 8:33:17 PM

[up] AFAIK, Mythology and Religion works are fictional.

Limpin' with the bizkit.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1652: Jun 30th 2020 at 8:34:39 PM

[up] Careful with how you say that. There are people who believe in those things. This isn't the place to debate on whether or not religious followers are "misaimed" or not, regardless of how fictional their beliefs are.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#1653: Jun 30th 2020 at 8:39:37 PM

That sounds like a violation of Administrivia.Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement and a nasty edit war waiting to happen

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
jandn2014 SMILE! from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
SMILE!
#1654: Jul 1st 2020 at 7:00:10 PM

Does this count as natter? Found on YMMV.Eerie Indiana.

  • Designated Villain: In "Foreverware", Betty Wilson is meant to be a villain because she makes an Evil Laugh but actually does nothing more than selling magical Tupperwares and keeping herself and her sons Bert and Ernie young, though in her sons' case it was against their will.
    • However, the twins make it clear they're not happy with this because she's robbed them of growing up. They both state having to spend three decades in the seventh grade is a living hell. So she's a villain because she's My Beloved Smother taken to the extreme.

wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#1655: Jul 1st 2020 at 8:40:23 PM

That is exactly natter. Remove it.

Given that the natter is "this isn't an example because..." I say remove the whole example.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
jandn2014 SMILE! from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#1657: Jul 10th 2020 at 4:33:02 PM

On Victorious there's this weird entries that seems to argue with over if an example counts self. Here they are:

  • Tori and friends taking revenge on Manipulative Bastard Ryder in "Begging On Your Knees", along with his ex-girlfriends. Seeing such a Smug Snake of a villain given a well deserved Humiliation Conga, priceless!
    • Tori does it again in "Prom Wrecker", By crowning Jade as the prom queen and Doug the Diaper Guy as prom king, as a "discreet" revenge for Jade almost ruining Tori's hard-worked Prom. And to top it all off, a song by Tori, Cat and Andre to close the deal!
    • This one is a little less awesome when you consider that Tori ruined Jade's exhibition by taking over the space it would have occupied (which Jade had booked first), blatantly refused to cancel it, and never once apologized for screwing up the show that Jade had presumably been putting together for several weeks. Sure, Jade might have crossed a line with her retaliation, but Tori wasn't exactly in the right either.
    • Some see that as an over-riding Humiliation Conga for Jade, especially for her slap-on-the-wrist punishment for nearly killing Tori and Robbie in Tori Gets Stuck, but overall that episode had an awkward feel as there seemed to be an easy compromise to the scheduling conflict that was ignored simply for Rule of Funny.
    • A smaller one but when Beck puts Jade in a time out for being mean to Tori (which she actually does).

Is this Natter?

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#1658: Jul 11th 2020 at 4:41:07 AM

On YMMV.Die Hard the following example for The Scrappy has been changed from this:

  • The Scrappy: Deputy Police Chief Dwayne T. Robinson, the film's stupid chief, is only there to be an Obstructive Bureaucrat and slow the pacing of the film to a crawl whenever he's on screen.

to this:

  • The Scrappy: Deputy Police Chief Dwayne T. Robinson, the film's stupid chief, is only there to be an Obstructive Bureaucrat and slow the pacing of the film to a crawl whenever he's on screen. Roger Ebert actually refused to give the film a thumbs up entirely because of this character's existence, having long grown sick of action movies shoehorning in an idiot authority figure whose sole narrative purpose is to always be wrong to make the hero look good.

Is the sentence added necessary?

ATricksterArtist Back from the grave. from CH 57 (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Back from the grave.
#1659: Jul 11th 2020 at 4:52:07 AM

The example in general feels...really complain-y.

How's your day been?
Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#1660: Jul 12th 2020 at 9:33:33 AM

This may need a look. From the Real Life section of Feathered Fiend:

  • There are stories — unconfirmed — of massive eagles carrying off dogs and even in one case a small child (who survived, was found in the mountains miles from where she disappeared, and is the source of the story). There are verified accounts of eagles killing deer and young cattle. (Not carrying off, but killing, certainly.) Eagles also appear to have preyed on the young of early hominids (e.g.: our ancestors). In fact, the Haast's eagle from New Zealand was probably large enough to kill Māori settlers, who didn't arrive until some time around 1250. AD (or CE). It died out when its main food source (moa, large flightless birds) got exterminated by the Māori.
    • African Crowned Eagles have been known to launch predatory attacks on children (Up to seven years old!). Also, skulls of human infants have been found in African Crowned Eagle nests. This is also the same species of eagle that killed our hominid ancestors as mentioned by the troper above, and because of their fiercesness and fondness for primate meat they are known as the "leopards of the air" by certain African peoples.

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#1661: Jul 15th 2020 at 2:40:53 AM

[up][up]Isn't The Scrappy kind of an inherently complainy audience reaction by definition.

Still waiting on whether that last sentence qualifies as Natter or not.


On a similar note is the quote at the end of the following example from Informed Flaw worth keeping?:

** Ant-Man presents Scott Lang as an incompetent everyman who is always screwing up - as he's introduced just getting released from prison. But his backstory for going to prison is that he was essentially a hacking Robin Hood who was screwed over by his bosses when he discovered them doing illegal things. The Unshaved Mouse had this to say:

Afterword (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1662: Jul 15th 2020 at 12:25:11 PM

This series of examples from Fangirl is pretty clearly Natter, but I don't know enough about the book to know if any of it is salvageable or if it all just needs to go (which is what I'm leaning towards right now; as far as I can tell only like one of these is an actual example of the trope).

  • Jerkass Has a Point:
    • "Jerkass" probably isn't the right word, but Professor Piper is right about Cath's fanfiction being plagiarism, despite her protests. Though the fanfic community is talked about far kinder these days, the subject is still a legal grey area for properties that aren’t in the public domain, which Simon Snow presumably isn't. But it's generally agreed that it's harmless, if not a bit dodgy if the writer is not making a profit off of their fanfic. But Cath turned it in as a college assignment, though as homework and not for her final project. For a writing class, what Cath did was on par with buying an essay online, turning it in, and getting caught. She's lucky she even got a chance to make up for it. Levi even lampshades it, saying the simple solution is don't turn in fanfiction.
      • On the other hand, Professor Piper's opinion is not universal, so her giving Cath a failing grade is about on the same level as a professor giving a failing grade on a historical paper because they have an interpretation that disagrees with that of the paper.
      • On the other, other hand, Professor Piper asked Cath to write an original story. And at the end of the day, she didn't, the world and characters were not created by Cath and no matter how she wants to spin that fact won't change. Professor Piper is basically telling Cath she needs to get out of her comfort zone and at this point in the novel, she really hasn't.
    • Cath has a moment when fighting with Wren about visiting their mother. She tells Wren that Laura broke all of them, Wren included, and that she'd rather pick up her own pieces than be "wasted" the way her sister is all the time. Cath ends up being right on both of these points; her mother ends up leaving an unconscious Wren right when she would have been needed, and Wren nearly dies from alcohol poisoning. Art, their dad, makes Wren see a counselor to handle her problems rather than drink them away. Their dad also points out that when Wren tries to say she doesn't want to be a shut-in like Cath, that her twin sister has maintained her 4.0 GPA for her scholarship and has a nice boyfriend.
    • On the other hand, whether or not Wren wants to reconnect with Laura is her choice. Her reasons are not unfounded, and she's given the opportunity. Meanwhile, Cath at first acts like a spoiled brat throwing a tantrum that Wren's even considering it. Later, she says she's not fine with Wren going but doesn't want to fight her about it; it's Wren who initiates the argument by saying her sister is "making" her do this alone. Cath already made her choice, it's none of her business what Wren chooses. Cath eventually accepts this, and she and Wren agree to just not speak about the issue.
    • Art tends to be right when he is losing his temper. He tells Cath that dropping out of college because it's too hard is the equivalent of quitting and that sets a precedent for life. Cath needs a few days to admit that he's right, especially when he says that she doesn't have to take care of him. Later, he says that Wren is out of control with her drinking and that if she doesn't see a counselor and go cold turkey, he's making her drop out.

Edited by Afterword on Jul 15th 2020 at 4:15:06 AM

HeavyMetalHermitCrab Since: Sep, 2018
#1663: Jul 15th 2020 at 2:31:43 PM

[up] *Rolls eyes*

Unless I'm missing something, only the first example is even somewhat applicable to the trope, and that's purely assuming that Prof. Piper is actually a Jerkass, and not just someone that did what any reasonable higher-level educator is expected to do. (And, honestly, given that plagiarism is grounds for expulsion in most universities, I wouldn't think that the Prof is that much of a jerk given the fairly light consequences).

In any case, the entirety of that example should consist of the fact that the assignment was for original work, and what was turned in was not wholly original, if at all. The rambly expounding on the legality, popular opinion of, and those godawful defenses of fanfiction is completely unnecessary, even if it 99% of the example.

Edited by HeavyMetalHermitCrab on Jul 15th 2020 at 2:34:00 AM

Afterword (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1664: Jul 16th 2020 at 10:08:46 AM

Yeah, my problem is that I don't know the book well enough to know whether the professor is a jerkass (although the rest of the article seems to cast her as more of a Reasonable Authority Figure so there is that). I was also looking at the last example, the one about Art. Does that one look keepable? (Sorry, I'm new at this)

Edited by Afterword on Jul 16th 2020 at 2:33:36 PM

HeavyMetalHermitCrab Since: Sep, 2018
#1665: Jul 16th 2020 at 3:16:03 PM

Based on what is written, the Art example looks more like Tough Love than “he’s an asshole, but he’s right.”

Edit: looking at other sites, Piper appears to be an RAF like you said. Cut the whole damn thing, I say.

Edited by HeavyMetalHermitCrab on Jul 16th 2020 at 3:19:15 AM

Afterword (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1667: Jul 19th 2020 at 4:36:19 AM

I don't know if this is natter per se, just that the whole Truth in Television segment feels like a tangent and IDK where else to bring it up. On Fantastic Slurs:

  • On My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon call their classmates who haven't gotten their cutie marks yet "Blank Flanks". Ironically, they appropriated the term from their teacher, Cheerilee, who wasn't using it as an insult. Truth in Television: Almost without fail, slurs started out as either innocuous descriptors without negative connotation (like "stupid", which once meant "in a stupor", so a term for someone drunk or concussed rather than unintelligent) or descriptors which did have a negative connotation, but weren't meant to be used as insults (like "retard", which used to just mean "someone who is retarded", the then-acceptable term for someone with a mental disability; even the N-word, long considered the reigning king of racial slurs in the English language, was derived from the Latin word for "Black"). It's not something that's stopped happening either; "LD" (for "learning disability") is starting to pick up as a playground insult. Though in "Crusaders of the Lost Mark", Diamond Tiara's mother Spoiled Rich uses the term, indicating that she picked it up from her and it isn't exclusive to the schoolyard.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1668: Jul 19th 2020 at 6:19:15 AM

It almost feels like it belongs on an Analysis page or something.

wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#1669: Jul 19th 2020 at 6:41:36 AM

Yeah, that's not germane to the example in particular.

Also, that pothole to N-word Privileges is a misuse.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1670: Jul 24th 2020 at 1:12:12 AM

I cut down the example, but I figured the main point of that lengthy bit was worth keeping:

  • On My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon call their classmates who haven't gotten their cutie marks yet "Blank Flanks". Ironically, they appropriated the term from their teacher, Cheerilee, who wasn't using it as an insult, suggesting it might be a technical term which was appropriated as derogatory language (which is Truth in Television for many slurs). Though in "Crusaders of the Lost Mark", Diamond Tiara's mother Spoiled Rich uses the term, indicating that she picked it up from her and it isn't exclusive to the schoolyard.

Also, isn't your pothole to Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking in your text about the entry's pothole being misuse, also in itself misuse?tongue

Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 24th 2020 at 4:13:59 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
ejmenendez Since: May, 2015
#1671: Aug 10th 2020 at 5:45:46 AM

I found this on Break the Haughty:

  • Any episode that centers on Squidward. The most subtle example must be the episode in which Squidward tries moving to a town of inhabitants who are just like him...only to end up so bored that he flips out. Naturally, the town haughtily expels him.

I'm fine with keeping the first example, but the second example feels tacked on to complain about the newer seasons. Would it be alright to remove it?

wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#1672: Aug 10th 2020 at 6:15:33 AM

"Any episode that centers on Squidward" isn't how examples work, so the first bullet point should be rewritten to focus only on the one specific episode it talks about.

The second bullet point is pure natter and should be burned.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#1673: Aug 17th 2020 at 8:21:35 AM

I found this on Dumbo (2019):

  • Esoteric Happy Ending: The film ends with Dumbo and his mother being released into the wilds of Asia, despite the fact that they were raised in captivity, and captive-raised animals tend to have difficulty surviving in the wild in reality. There is a disturbing possibility that Mrs. Jumbo will be either shot by poachers or raped by a bull elephant due to her inexperience of living in the wild.[[/spoiler
    • We may presume that the matriarchs of this herd will help her. Also, if the people responsible know where she was captured, they may have made an effort to release her in the same area. That may be her family down there.

Is the second bullet point matter or no?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#1674: Aug 17th 2020 at 8:26:45 AM

Reposting this since I didn't get a reply.

On Victorious there's these weird entries that seems to argue with over if an example counts self. Here they are:

  • Tori and friends taking revenge on Manipulative Bastard Ryder in "Begging On Your Knees", along with his ex-girlfriends. Seeing such a Smug Snake of a villain given a well deserved Humiliation Conga, priceless!
    • Tori does it again in "Prom Wrecker", By crowning Jade as the prom queen and Doug the Diaper Guy as prom king, as a "discreet" revenge for Jade almost ruining Tori's hard-worked Prom. And to top it all off, a song by Tori, Cat and Andre to close the deal!
    • This one is a little less awesome when you consider that Tori ruined Jade's exhibition by taking over the space it would have occupied (which Jade had booked first), blatantly refused to cancel it, and never once apologized for screwing up the show that Jade had presumably been putting together for several weeks. Sure, Jade might have crossed a line with her retaliation, but Tori wasn't exactly in the right either.
    • Some see that as an over-riding Humiliation Conga for Jade, especially for her slap-on-the-wrist punishment for nearly killing Tori and Robbie in Tori Gets Stuck, but overall that episode had an awkward feel as there seemed to be an easy compromise to the scheduling conflict that was ignored simply for Rule of Funny.
    • A smaller one but when Beck puts Jade in a time out for being mean to Tori (which she actually does).

  • After Jade pours coffee on Tori's head during an improv sketch, the next day, Tori gets revenge by kissing her (Jade's) boyfriend, Beck in another improv sketch.
    • This made her appear as less of a likeable protagonist to some viewers.
      • To be fair, it was just a sketch. Plus, Beck agreed to it.
    • Much moreso in Cat's New Boyfriend, where Tori kisses the titular boy who happened to be her ex-boyfriend. Seems like Cat and Jade can both relate with each other now.
    • And then Cat punches Tori in the face later on in the episode.
    • Maybe the writers took on board the criticism of previous characters in this universe, Carly Shay and in Zoey 101 (who were regularly accused of being too perfect), and thought a character who can be selfish and a bitch sometimes would make her more believable.
    • Tori and Jade having an entire fight during the improv sketch and still managing to follow the rules and keep it alphabetical, just the two of them. At least, until Jade gets too frustrated and messes up. (And it's worth noting that they went almost the entire alphabet. Beck's last line started with F and Tori and Jade went back and forth all the way until it hit F again and Jade messed up. That's twenty-five lines of back and forth without messing up in improv.)

Is this Natter?

Edit: Added another tree that seems to do the same.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 17th 2020 at 10:32:10 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
HeavyMetalHermitCrab Since: Sep, 2018
#1675: Aug 17th 2020 at 9:25:57 AM

^^ Yes, that's natter.

^ I've bolded the natter:

  • Tori and friends taking revenge on Manipulative Bastard Ryder in "Begging On Your Knees", along with his ex-girlfriends. Seeing such a Smug Snake of a villain given a well deserved Humiliation Conga, priceless!
    • Tori does it again in "Prom Wrecker", By crowning Jade as the prom queen and Doug the Diaper Guy as prom king, as a "discreet" revenge for Jade almost ruining Tori's hard-worked Prom. And to top it all off, a song by Tori, Cat and Andre to close the deal!
    • This one is a little less awesome when you consider that Tori ruined Jade's exhibition by taking over the space it would have occupied (which Jade had booked first), blatantly refused to cancel it, and never once apologized for screwing up the show that Jade had presumably been putting together for several weeks. Sure, Jade might have crossed a line with her retaliation, but Tori wasn't exactly in the right either.
    • Some see that as an over-riding Humiliation Conga for Jade, especially for her slap-on-the-wrist punishment for nearly killing Tori and Robbie in Tori Gets Stuck, but overall that episode had an awkward feel as there seemed to be an easy compromise to the scheduling conflict that was ignored simply for Rule of Funny.
    • A smaller one but when Beck puts Jade in a time out for being mean to Tori (which she actually does).
  • After Jade pours coffee on Tori's head during an improv sketch, the next day, Tori gets revenge by kissing her (Jade's) boyfriend, Beck in another improv sketch.
    • This made her appear as less of a likeable protagonist to some viewers.
      • To be fair, it was just a sketch. Plus, Beck agreed to it.
    • Much moreso in Cat's New Boyfriend, where Tori kisses the titular boy who happened to be her ex-boyfriend. Seems like Cat and Jade can both relate with each other now.
      • And then Cat punches Tori in the face later on in the episode.
    • Maybe the writers took on board the criticism of previous characters in this universe, Carly Shay and in Zoey 101 (who were regularly accused of being too perfect), and thought a character who can be selfish and a bitch sometimes would make her more believable.
    • Tori and Jade having an entire fight during the improv sketch and still managing to follow the rules and keep it alphabetical, just the two of them. At least, until Jade gets too frustrated and messes up. (And it's worth noting that they went almost the entire alphabet. Beck's last line started with F and Tori and Jade went back and forth all the way until it hit F again and Jade messed up. That's twenty-five lines of back and forth without messing up in improv.)


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