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Rename : The Pete Best

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DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#26: Oct 6th 2010 at 1:14:43 AM

Bump.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
suedenim Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl from Jet Dream HQ Since: Oct, 2009
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
#27: Oct 6th 2010 at 8:11:04 AM

I'd say keep it as is. And I really dislike The Other Ringo, for most of the reasons stated, plus I think snowclone naming is a bad thing most of the time.

Jet-a-Reeno!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#28: Oct 6th 2010 at 8:21:22 AM

Left Before They Got Famous. This takes all Fan Myopia out of the equation. I'm not the most pop music-savvy guy, and this trope name is completely opaque to me.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DRCEQ Since: Oct, 2009
#29: Oct 6th 2010 at 8:38:53 AM

^ This isn't a trope exclusive to music though. It applies to anime, live action TV, and others.

  • Fans of The Slayers often have a "Hey Its That Voice" moment when they hear Crispin Freeman in non-Zelgadis roles. However, those same fans will, on going back and re-watching the first half of the first season years later, have a moment of confusion on hearing Daniel Cronin's voice coming out of Zelgadis' mouth.
  • Eric Stuart, the longtime voice actor for James in the 4Kids dub of Pokemon, was actually the second voice actor for the character. Ted Lewis was James' voice actor for the first few episodes of the show's run. The transition from Lewis to Stuart was notable as a specific point of Flanderization where James suddenly became less smooth and suave and a lot more feminine and incompetent.

Crispin Freeman is a huge voice actor. Daniel Cronin wasn't a bad actor, but Freeman became the more famous of the two as their careers expanded. Same with Eric Stuart and Ted Lewis. Eric just became the bigger of the two, while Lewis was shuffled to minor roles.

There's also Film, Real Life, Wrestling, Western Animation, and others. Music is still the largest folder though.

I vote for Replaced And Forgotten.

edited 6th Oct '10 8:40:34 AM by DRCEQ

carla Since: Jan, 2010
#30: Oct 6th 2010 at 11:17:02 AM

i had no idea who pete best was until i read the article. of course, i barely recognize the names of the beatles as it is. heh. tongue but the first thing that came to mind was He Came Before Ringo. now that i look at it, though, i sounds, er, awkward... evil grin

SeanMurrayI Since: Jan, 2010
#31: Oct 6th 2010 at 11:50:20 AM

Left Before They Got Famous sounds the most specific name to serve as an alternative.

Replaced And Forgotten makes this sound like a fan reaction to a Suspiciously Similar Substitute or other replacing a hated character that fans can quickly pretend never existed, and that's not entirely accurate for this.

edited 6th Oct '10 11:51:03 AM by SeanMurrayI

Fnor Does not work that way from Haha, no. Since: Jun, 2010
Does not work that way
#32: Oct 6th 2010 at 11:53:17 AM

edit: I somehow missed the crowner. Ignore me.

edited 6th Oct '10 11:53:55 AM by Fnor

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#33: Oct 6th 2010 at 11:55:08 AM

That's because I just added it a second ago. I ninjaed you. Tee hee.

Feel free to edit in more pros and cons if you can keep 'em concise and non-argumentative.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#34: Oct 6th 2010 at 12:19:11 PM

I deleted the con because it's a) a Fan Myopia declaration, and b) the point of the trope is that he's not well known.

edited 6th Oct '10 12:19:31 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Daremo Misanthrope Supreme from Parts Unknown Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
#35: Oct 6th 2010 at 12:31:42 PM

The pro reason is actually the best reason not to rename.

But pros without cons is unbalanced and looks biased. Might as well not have any and leave it to the topic.

edited 6th Oct '10 12:34:34 PM by Daremo

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#37: Oct 6th 2010 at 2:34:22 PM

I hope people aren't voting for this solely because it involves The Beatles. I mean, wanting to keep the name because they are famous is against the point of the trope in the first place.

Also, I added some pros I felt were arguments against the name. If you can think of legitimate con reasons, go ahead and add them. But if there isn't one, then I don't see how pros should not be allowed. This isn't about balance. It's about presenting points.

edited 6th Oct '10 2:39:25 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#38: Oct 6th 2010 at 2:47:19 PM

Well, does it help that Pete Best is probably the Most Triumphant Example?

Daremo Misanthrope Supreme from Parts Unknown Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
#39: Oct 6th 2010 at 2:51:33 PM

Your pro reasons contradict each other and add up to a con.

The definition of this trope actually requires someone not being iconic; even fans of The Beatles wouldn't necessarily know about this guy, or that he's an example of this trope; that is the point of this trope.

From this we can conclude Pete Best is the possible illustration of this trope.

edited 6th Oct '10 2:52:02 PM by Daremo

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#40: Oct 6th 2010 at 2:52:49 PM

Illustration, yes. Most Triumphant Example, yes. But as a Trope Namer, he's so obscure that you cannot possibly know what the trope is about unless you read it, unless you happen to specifically know who that is.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#41: Oct 6th 2010 at 3:11:54 PM

But even if you don't know Pete Best, once you read the description you can go "Oh, yeah, that makes sense." Right? That's what I did.

edited 6th Oct '10 3:12:05 PM by troacctid

SeanMurrayI Since: Jan, 2010
#42: Oct 6th 2010 at 3:20:02 PM

I just don't see how Pete Best is any less iconic or known as Darrin and Marty are.

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#43: Oct 6th 2010 at 3:36:51 PM

"Illustration, yes. Most Triumphant Example, yes. But as a Trope Namer, he's so obscure that you cannot possibly know what the trope is about unless you read it, unless you happen to specifically know who that is."

Yes. The point of the trope means that being the most triumphant example is a bad thing, since it means you won't know what the trope is by that name. You have to know he's obscure, and known for obscurity, which would mean he's either not that obscure, or you just have obscure knowledge.

I'm putting that in the pro points.

"I just don't see how Pete Best is any less iconic or known as Darrin and Marty are."

The Other Marty, yes, but both Darrins were in Bewitched, and thus would actually be known by fans. Beatles and Back to the Future fans wouldn't necessarily know about Pete and Eric Stoltz's respective involvements.

edited 6th Oct '10 3:42:54 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
SeanMurrayI Since: Jan, 2010
#44: Oct 6th 2010 at 3:42:57 PM

^That's NOT true at all. Just because a person or character was present in a work before (but not during) the time a work became popular does not mean that the person who left is an unknown. Pete Best's history with The Beatles is just as widely known as Eric Stoltz's time spent on the set of Back To The Future and Dick Sergeant's tenure during Bewitched's color years.

Twilightdusk Since: Jan, 2001
#45: Oct 6th 2010 at 3:59:17 PM

Well, here's the thing though, there's two situations here.

  • Pete Best is well known, meaning he isn't an example of the trope and shouldn't be the Trope Namer
  • Pete Best isn't well known, meaning there shouldn't be a trope named after him.

Simple as that.

SeanMurrayI Since: Jan, 2010
#46: Oct 6th 2010 at 4:01:14 PM

"Not being well known" was never a requirement for this trope. Nothing like that is even mentioned in the description. The only requirement is to merely have left a work before that work itself became famous. People can be widely known for having done this.

edited 6th Oct '10 4:02:17 PM by SeanMurrayI

Twilightdusk Since: Jan, 2001
#47: Oct 6th 2010 at 4:05:19 PM

A subtrope of the Suspiciously Similar Substitute and/or The Other Darrin, wherein one actor is in a role or position, then is dropped (or leaves voluntarily) for another actor who is the one everyone remembers after the work or group becomes famous.

SeanMurrayI Since: Jan, 2010
#48: Oct 6th 2010 at 4:07:44 PM

"Everyone remembers after the work or group became famous" =/= "Nobody knows about the old guy."

edited 6th Oct '10 4:08:26 PM by SeanMurrayI

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#50: Oct 6th 2010 at 4:22:20 PM

"Pete Best's history with The Beatles is just as widely known as Eric Stoltz's time spent on the set of Back To The Future and Dick Sergeant's tenure during Bewitched's color years."

If you are assuming Bewitched only hit it big in color, and thus the first Darrin is obscure, that was not the case.

edited 6th Oct '10 4:53:18 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

SingleProposition: ThePeteBest
20th Apr '10 12:00:00 AM

Crown Description:

Vote up for yes, down for no.

Total posts: 154
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