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Redefine: Decoy Protagonist

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Nyktos (srahc 84) eltit Since: Jan, 2001
(srahc 84) eltit
#1: Oct 9th 2010 at 12:48:14 PM

This trope claims to be about a character who seems to be the main protagonist but dies early. It's used to mean a character who seems to be the main protagonist but...isn't, whether that's because of death or some other reason. I'd suggest we redefine it to the latter, or create a trope for that and make Decoy Protagonist a subtrope of it.

Note that if we do redefine it, it won't be a Death Trope anymore, so spoiler tags will need to be added where they aren't present.

edited 9th Oct '10 12:49:37 PM by Nyktos

I guess it is.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#2: Oct 10th 2010 at 9:02:08 AM

I agree that death induced is it's own subtrope.

Fight smart, not fair.
Nyktos (srahc 84) eltit Since: Jan, 2001
(srahc 84) eltit
#3: Oct 12th 2010 at 5:54:01 PM

Bump.

I guess it is.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#4: Oct 12th 2010 at 5:56:10 PM

Makes sense. People are already using the trope more broadly than the description says it is, and it really should be broader anyway. Maybe split out the death bit, if it turns out we need to, at this point, I'm not even sure we do.

Twilightdusk Since: Jan, 2001
#5: Oct 12th 2010 at 5:59:16 PM

Yea, no need to limit it to being death induced when the same effect can be achieved through other means.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#6: Oct 12th 2010 at 6:15:47 PM

So, Decoy Protagonist becomes the broad trope and a Sacrificial Decoy Protagonist gets the description?

Fight smart, not fair.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#7: Oct 12th 2010 at 6:18:58 PM

I think that death induced could be a subtrope, but really you can have a Decoy Protagonist without killing them.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#8: Oct 12th 2010 at 9:07:51 PM

That's what I meant. Broaden Decoy Protagonist to the general case, move the current definition to something like Sacrificial Decoy Protagonist.

Fight smart, not fair.
Twilightdusk Since: Jan, 2001
#9: Oct 13th 2010 at 1:25:08 PM

I question whether or not we really need to split off the version where the decoy dies, but in either case the existing trope should be expanded.

JackMackerel from SOME OBSCURE MEDIA Since: Jul, 2010
Nyktos (srahc 84) eltit Since: Jan, 2001
(srahc 84) eltit
#11: Oct 17th 2010 at 11:27:34 PM

Bump.

I guess it is.
rjung He's just some guy, you know? from Fifth and Main (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
He's just some guy, you know?
#12: Oct 18th 2010 at 9:45:12 AM

The only problem I can see is that the non-fatal Decoy Protagonist is already covered by Supporting Protagonist. At least that's how I read it.

—R.J.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#13: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:06:14 PM

I think it would be has more to do with how the story treats them. A Supporting Protagonist simply isn't the hero, a Decoy Protagonist is set up to be the main character in the first act, and then the story decides to follow someone else.

Fight smart, not fair.
Nyktos (srahc 84) eltit Since: Jan, 2001
(srahc 84) eltit
#14: Oct 19th 2010 at 6:36:56 PM

No, Supporting Protagonist is when the protagonist is not the hero — but he's still the protagonist. This would be when the character you initially assume is the protagonist isn't even really the main character.

I guess it is.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#15: Oct 19th 2010 at 6:52:02 PM

I suppose I should have used The Hero.

Fight smart, not fair.
rjung He's just some guy, you know? from Fifth and Main (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
He's just some guy, you know?
#16: Oct 19th 2010 at 11:57:15 PM

I still think the non-dying Decoy Protagonist and Supporting Protagonist are too similar to each other to be two separate tropes. Might be easier to just move the non-dying examples from Decoy Protagonist to Supporting Protagonist and tighten the descriptions a smidge.

—R.J.

Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
#17: Oct 20th 2010 at 12:30:03 AM

Uh, no, I think Nyktos got it. A non-dying decoy can still be quite distinct from a supporting, and functions more like a dying decoy than a general supporting.

edited 3rd Nov '10 7:49:57 AM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Cidolfas Since: Jan, 2001
#18: Nov 3rd 2010 at 7:45:15 AM

I support a redefine but I don't think we need a split.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
#20: Nov 3rd 2010 at 7:54:12 AM

I agree.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#21: Nov 3rd 2010 at 8:55:20 AM

Yeah... change the death requirement to something like "Most of the time its done by killing the decoy off"

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sgrunt Sigil Spam from the depths of your mind Since: Apr, 2009
#22: Nov 3rd 2010 at 9:35:57 AM

I've made some subtle adjustments.

Does it read better now?

This space for rent. Cost: your soul.
rjung He's just some guy, you know? from Fifth and Main (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
He's just some guy, you know?
#23: Nov 3rd 2010 at 10:24:33 AM

Still seems to overlap with Supporting Protagonist IMO.

—R.J.

Shale Since: Jan, 2001
#24: Nov 3rd 2010 at 10:34:10 AM

I elaborated the definition of Supporting Protagonist - it was mostly defined by what it isn't. There's a fairly bright distinction between the two.

Decoy Protagonist: A character initially appears to be the hero/protagonist, but is supplanted after the first act by the real one in both roles. He drops down to the role of supporting character or simply dies, but either way somebody else becomes the main character and the hero.

Supporting Protagonist: The hero and main character are two separate people. This never changes.

edited 3rd Nov '10 10:37:55 AM by Shale

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#25: Nov 4th 2010 at 12:59:39 PM

Yeah... change the death requirement to something like "Most of the time its done by killing the decoy off"

"Most of the time" is a bit strong and it's not like we've done a survey. For all we know there are even more non-dying examples that haven't been added because of the current description. "Often" should be enough.

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