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Rename Attempt #2:: The Mario

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Elle Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
Sep 21st 2010 at 9:44:08 PM

The Mario, a.k.a. Jack of All Stats, came up here for a rename before, was highly contested, and ultimately failed. After some discussion that came out of The Umbridge I thought it might be time to bring it up again.

The primary argument:

The Mario fails as a Character Named Trope because while Mario is an example of this trope in his spinoff games (Mario Kart, Mario sports titles), but it is not an aspect of the character that first comes to mind.

Facts:

452 wicks and 1036 inbound links.

The thing I'd like to find out:

We noticed with The Umbridge that many Character Named Tropes will get potholed for *any* mention of the character. The contention is that this is misuse if the trope so named is not an adequate summary of the character or is not talking about the character where the context of the linked trope applies.

So is this happening with The Mario?

I'm starting looking from the top of the list; others are welcome to pick a letter and chime in.

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DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
Sep 21st 2010 at 10:07:09 PM

Good. I was planning on doing this, but forgot.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Hydronix I'm an Irene! from TV Tropes
I'm an Irene!
Sep 21st 2010 at 11:51:20 PM

I still would prefer to seperate Jack of all Trades as both a trope and a movie, though Jack of all Skills or possible The Jack of all Trades works too.

I know, since I found this out while using Jack of all Trades in a partial pun on the Quest 64 page. (Brian was originally named Jack).

Quest 64 thread
Sep 22nd 2010 at 12:39:12 AM

Definitely rename. As I believe I mentioned in the last thread, Mario isn't even particularly known for that in the greater community - only among those who play spinoffs and it's not like it's all that vital. He's more known for being a plumber, jumping on the heads of creatures, being a mascot, et cetera.

BTW, I'm a chick.
DoktorvonEurotrash Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
Sep 22nd 2010 at 3:07:31 AM

Rename.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
Fnor Does not work that way from Haha, no.
Does not work that way
Sep 22nd 2010 at 6:17:52 AM

I did a quick survey roughly distributed throughout the alphabet. Out of about 80 or so articles I checked, I found two misuses. Not only is this trope popular, it's being used very well and without confusion.

The examples need cleaning up, but there is no way this should be renamed.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Sep 22nd 2010 at 7:04:16 AM

Jack-of-All-Trades is actually a show, but being a show named after a saying, I think it gets the namespace.

Fight smart, not fair.
Sep 22nd 2010 at 7:32:46 AM

I want to rename this, but is it being misused? If it's not, I don't think it's really justifiable.

TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel
Diagonalizing The Matrix
Sep 22nd 2010 at 7:35:19 AM

Count me in for renaming this to Jack of All Stats. If you ask someone who Mario is, the things that come to mind are:

1. Italian
2. Plumber
3. Platform game character
4. Eats mushrooms
5. Does Goomba Stomps
...
5741. Tends to have well-rounded stats in spin-off games

I'm of the opinion that misuse is a sufficient, but by no means necessary, condition for seriously considering a rename. Sure, if there's no misuse there had better be a good argument for renaming, but, well, this is clearly the case here.

edited 22nd Sep '10 7:42:43 AM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal
likes the cheeses.
Sep 22nd 2010 at 7:59:49 AM

I would like to see more in the way of actually misuse figures before I make a decision here. I voted in favor of renaming the Umbridge, but what swayed me was the large percentages of potholes that did not make sense in the context of the example.

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Elle Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
Sep 22nd 2010 at 8:44:31 AM

Judging by the way the last attempt went, it will take signifigant evidence of misuse to sway the votes, those of us who think it's a bad name anyway notwithstanding.

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Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal
likes the cheeses.
Sep 22nd 2010 at 9:07:10 AM

Well, its number of wicks and inbound links seem to indicate that the name isn't causing too much trouble, as it's spreading pretty well. If there is a lot of misuse, though, that could be an indication that the name is having a negative impact.

edited 22nd Sep '10 9:07:32 AM by Meeble

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
Sep 22nd 2010 at 9:27:55 AM

Exactly. While I don't like the name, I don't want to replace it if it's both doing well and not being misused.

carla from panama city, panama
Sep 22nd 2010 at 9:48:02 AM

hey guys, how are those wicks determined, btw? i wanted to check a few of them and the page directed me to the Pokemon page, but i checked the page via the edit link and there seems to be no reference to The Mario in it— just to Super Mario Bros. surprised

anyway, i checked around 20 works/tropes i'm familiar with. 4 of those had incorrect uses, mostly referencing "princess peach's boyfriend." and of course, many of the "good" examples were just the name of a certain character potholed to The Mario without much more of an explanation, so i took them as good even if i can't really have any idea of what the editor was thinking when he set up the pothole. who knows.

still, don't think that's overwhelming proof of misuse since the trope has 453 wicks at the moment.

having said that, i do support a rename. the problem with mario is that he's expanded so far from games, and has undergone so much Popcultural Osmosis through that medium jump, that his stats are likely not the first thing you think of when you hear his name. i've never been much of a gamer myself; i played quite a few mario games, but i've never been one to even look at stats normally— i did follow the tv show religiously when i was a kid, though. as Triple Elation said, when i think of mario i think of mustachioed italian plumbers, or Nintendo.

edited 22nd Sep '10 9:57:00 AM by carla

Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Sep 22nd 2010 at 9:50:56 AM

I tend to agree; while it may at some point have been his most notable characteristic (although I even kind of doubt that, outside of a niche of dedicated Mario gamers) it's not anymore.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Meophist from Toronto, Canada
Sep 22nd 2010 at 9:52:31 AM

...Just to be clear, this trope is about being statistically balanced, rather than having a balanced set of skills, right?

Helpful Scripts and Stylesheets here.
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Sep 22nd 2010 at 9:57:13 AM

It's about both, depending on the type of game. In a game where characters are defined by skills, he'll have a balanced skill set at a moderate level in all of them. In a game that uses stats, he'll have decent stats across the board; no extraordinarily good ones, no extraordinarily bad ones.

"A character that does not specialize (and explicitly so). Strong but not the strongest, fast but not the fastest. The typical jack-of-all-trades, good at everything, the best at nothing. His biggest strength is his lack of any glaring weaknesses..."

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Meophist from Toronto, Canada
Sep 22nd 2010 at 10:05:07 AM

I think the trope should be split into the two then. Then are games where one can have a balanced set of stats without a balanced set of skills and vice versa. The two, I think, are rather different.

Helpful Scripts and Stylesheets here.
Hydronix I'm an Irene! from TV Tropes
I'm an Irene!
Sep 22nd 2010 at 10:18:29 AM

Jack of all Skills could work for the skill point, with The Mario for the rest, maybe?

Quest 64 thread
Fnor Does not work that way from Haha, no.
Does not work that way
Sep 22nd 2010 at 10:30:23 AM

I don't see much point in splitting them, considering there are many games where skills are in fact the relevant stats. The point behind either is the same: the character is balanced between all or most available abilities (and it works out well). Whether it's skill points, abilities scores, or techniques is a matter for the work, not the underlying trope.

Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Sep 22nd 2010 at 10:35:24 AM

I think that stats vs skills is a meaningless division. It doesn't change the fundamental way the trope is applied.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
Sep 22nd 2010 at 10:59:42 AM

BTW, if you checked the wicks, fnor, you should at least post some of those here so we can also see if they fit.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Sep 25th 2010 at 9:18:47 AM

Absolutely needs a rename. As others have said, Mario's balanced stats are one of the last things fans will think of when they think of him, and even though most people know who Mario is, there's no way non-fans will know about this particular characteristic of his that only appears in spin-offs. Jack of All Stats is a great alternative.

Sep 25th 2010 at 9:50:26 AM

Jack of All Stats works good. Averagely Average Character or Statistically Average would be my suggestions for a rename if it ever comes to that.

edited 25th Sep '10 9:53:03 AM by DRCEQ

Daremo Misanthrope Supreme from Parts Unknown Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
Sep 25th 2010 at 11:13:56 AM

If it's actually broken, then I'd say fix it, but if it's not, leave it alone.

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

Total posts: 57
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