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Dec 4th 2018 at 3:56:08 PM

I stand corrected, then. The entirety of humanity being under threat of being enslaved by a powerful dragon is still a pretty fantastical plot, though.

http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi http://www.fimfiction.net/story/120195/the-necromancers-ambition
HamburgerTime Glimmer of civilization. from The Former Republic of Zubrowka Relationship Status: I know
Glimmer of civilization.
Dec 4th 2018 at 3:59:36 PM

Why was Jahn a bad guy again?

BE SURE TO DRINK YOUR OVALTINE
Dec 4th 2018 at 4:05:01 PM

RE: Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

Medeus is a Manakete, he's known as the King of Manaketes in Archanea and indeed, he commands almost all manaketes seen in the Archanea titles.

Thats not why Medeus fell out with the Divine dragons.

Basically Medeus, unlike the rest of his tribe and indeed the majority of dragons, chose to become a Manakete and helped seal away the feral dragons, guarding the Dragon's Altar(what the Table in Awakening is based off of).

After hundreds of years of doing this, Medeus saw humans abuse their powers and condemn the Manaketes of the Fire and Mage tribes to live in squalor. Frustrated as Naga said humans would rule justly, Medeus gathered together all the disenfranchised manaketes into one army as well as humans who were loyal to him.

Yes, that is correct that the majority of humans would be servants to Medeus in case of his victory. He was willing to reward humans loyal to Manakete's ultimate superiority though.

Funfact on FE 7's final boss, in Japan, its class name is Ancient Fire Dragon. Though it should also be noted in the Scouring, humans were mainly winning due to their greater numbers and ability to recover from their losses. The Scouring went on so long that breeding capabilities became a major factor.

Edited by Monsund on Dec 4th 2018 at 4:09:59 AM

VampireBuddha [DATA EXPUNGED] from Right behind you. Just keep typing. Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
[DATA EXPUNGED]
Dec 5th 2018 at 1:44:40 PM

Let's look at the definition of Heroic Fantasy.

[Heroic fantasy] tends to be distinguishable from High Fantasy by its scale—the problems are generally those of the heroes, not the world. Kingdoms and societies are portrayed mainly to the extent the heroes have an impact on them.

Check. Fire Emblem games are about wars between countries, in which a force of less than 100 people are portrayed doing all the important things. Heck, the plot of Fates depends entirely on a single decision made by Corrin.

Some of the games do end up in a save the world plot (and Fates' DLC turns Anankos into a multiversal conqueror), but it's still up to a relatively mundane hero and their friends to save the day.

On the other hand, it's distinct from Low Fantasy as well in that the heroes are actually heroic and their goals are morally sound or, at the very least, not overtly objectionable. An Anti-Hero in this setting is more likely to be a Loveable Rogue than a Well-Intentioned Extremist.

Check. That is every Fire Emblem cast.

The setting ... is neither fragile and in need of saving, nor a Crapsack World with wickedness Inherent in the System—rather, it's an ambiguous place, characterized more than anything by being an Adventure-Friendly World, with much untamed wilderness to travel through, quests to undertake and dungeons to delve. Therefore, the heroes are very likely to encounter magic and fantastic elements, assuming they aren't prevalent in the setting to begin with.

This perfectly describes Marthworld, Elibe, Magvel, Tellius, and Corrinworld (if that one isn't also Marthworld). There's magic, shapeshifters, and dragons all over the place, and the worlds are pretty stable; even when some great evil vows to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!, it's usually on the level of an evil overlord or supervillain than a Lovecraftian monstrosity.

So overall, Fire Emblem is heroic fantasy.

Edited by VampireBuddha on Dec 5th 2018 at 9:45:12 AM

Dec 5th 2018 at 1:48:44 PM

So those of you keeping up with Super Smash Bros. Ultimate probably know that it's possible for Marth to fight a Rathalos. Here's a light-hearted question for you all: is Marth vs. Rathalos a reference to his fight against Medeus or Michalis?

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Dec 5th 2018 at 1:49:02 AM

Lightblade The Shrouded Knight from Philadelphia Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
The Shrouded Knight
Dec 5th 2018 at 8:22:21 PM

Blazing Blade Hector Mode, Chapter 12: Birds of a Feather

Hector and Matthew catch up to Eliwood and his party, but not before themselves getting caught up to by some reinforcements from Ostia. From Ostia, we have Knight Oswin and the return of Cleric Serra, while Lord Eliwood's entourage consists of Paladin Marcus, Cavalier Lowen, the returning Fighter Dorcas and his new friend and fellow Fighter Bartre, and Archer Rebecca. Between the Pheraean and Ostian units, we have a lot of new units and are now a proper party.

First, I sent Marcus to the Village north of his starting position to get the Secret Book. Then, the big challenge was getting the Red Gem Matthew picked up in the last chapter to the Armory to sell it and do some shopping. The Pegasus Knights made it difficult to keep Matthew and Serra out of their range, so I had Hector and Oswin fend them off and kill an Archer while they were at it. I was fortunate that some of the ground-based enemies were more interested in Eliwood's side of the party, or Hector's group would've had a rough time.

Soon, the two groups rendezvoused outside the Armory, where Matthew traded the Red Gem to Marcus, who then bought two Iron Axes, one for himself so he'll have access to all three points of the weapon triangle, and one for Hector so he can save his Wolf Beil for enemies weak to it, as well as an Iron Sword for Eliwood so he can conserve his Rapier.

After getting those weapons in the proper hands, it was time to take out the boss, who had been making his way toward us, following Hector's group through the forest. He had a lot of HP, but we chipped away at it, and Eliwood finished him off with his Rapier.

New Units: Oswin (Knight), Serra (Cleric), Eliwood (Lord), Marcus (Paladin), Lowen (Cavalier), Bartre (Fighter), Dorcas (Fighter), Rebecca (Archer)

Promotions: None

Casualties: None

The Living Guildpact rules that coffee is an acceptable substitution for rest as specified in subsection … whatever.
rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
Dec 6th 2018 at 12:37:09 AM

The whole Low Fantasy debate amused me, because just the other week I saw someone claiming that Low Fantasy only refers to fantasy that takes place in the real world. Using that definition rather simplifies the question of whether FE qualifies.

someone help im about to spend 100 bucks on a copy of path of radiance
Just emulate the dang thing and call it a day. It's not like you'd be supporting the creators buying it off some guy on eBay.

Edited by rikalous on Dec 6th 2018 at 12:46:09 PM

ShirowShirow Be creative from Land of maple syrup Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Be creative
Dec 6th 2018 at 1:23:17 AM

Oh come on that's Historical Fantasy something completely different and also awesome.

Ironic that Pokemon of all things touched on that before Fire Emblem did.

Edited by ShirowShirow on Dec 6th 2018 at 4:23:52 AM

He'd want you do be doing something awesome right now.
Clarste One Winged Egret Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
Dec 6th 2018 at 2:05:49 AM

Well, classifications aside, I do like the Fire Emblem stories a whole lot more when they're focusing on politics and war rather than dark gods and whatnot. I mean, to me that's a pretty identifiable reason that the plots of RD and Fates were so bad. Once the series starts focusing on the magical elements as the primary driver of the plot everything tends to fall apart. Even in Awakening I much preferred the Walhart part of the story to the Grima one.

I mean, yeah, Path of Radiance has a magical amulet but it's not actually important to the plot. The important part is just that Ashnard is attacking his neighboring kingdom, and most of the game is spent dealing with the political effects of this, not the magical ones, such as going to Begnion to get aid from a more powerful country. And yes, they have the whole bit with the massacre of the herons, and general laguz racism, but did it really matter that they were animal people? The whole thing is treated very politically throughout.

Edited by Clarste on Dec 6th 2018 at 2:09:43 AM

Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 6th 2018 at 3:39:42 AM

Tant about sums up my main gripe with RD.

Dec 6th 2018 at 8:31:11 AM

Uh, the amulet is pretty integral to the plot of Path of Radiance. Ashnard's entire motivation for attacking Crimea was because he wanted to fulfill the amulet's continental war requirement. It's a plot point that Ashnard would have no hope of winning once he provokes the full wrath of Begnion. Without the amulet and its world-ending effects, Ashnard would simply be a moron driving his country to ruin for no reason.

The laguz being animal people also matter because they have specific, animalistic cultures built up around them. You could toss them aside and replace them with humans about as easily as you could Tolkien's elves or dwarves.

http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi http://www.fimfiction.net/story/120195/the-necromancers-ambition
Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 6th 2018 at 8:47:47 AM

I think the difference is in the treatment.

In Po R, the magical amulet is a plot device, and almost a McGuffin at that. It drives the plot not in the sense of what it actively does (as in normal mode it's never used in the present), but in the sense that it's a driving force for several characters. But you could replace it with, say, a nuke and achieve similar results. You can't replace the gods in radiant dawn with a nuke. You can't replace them with anything less magical than them.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 6th 2018 at 5:49:45 PM

Dec 6th 2018 at 9:30:10 AM

You can't really replace the amulet with a nuke, though, unless it's got some super weird-ass remote trigger conditions. By the time Ashnard decides to start open war, he's given up on finding the Greil and the amulet, so he starts the war to piss off every nation on the continent and draw them into the conflict to fulfill the trigger condition for releasing the dark god. That's not really something that can be replaced by a nuke.

Edited by KuroiTsubasaTenshi on Dec 6th 2018 at 11:31:23 AM

http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi http://www.fimfiction.net/story/120195/the-necromancers-ambition
Dec 6th 2018 at 9:58:19 AM

I'm watching a L Per who's doing Radiant Dawn and unironically like Radiant Dawn (it seems a lot of people doesn't like the game, or more specifically, the story of the game) and only thing that he agree about people's criticism of the story is the Blood Pact... just barely.

Edited by mariovsonic999 on Dec 6th 2018 at 9:58:47 AM

Fire Emblem Heroes Code: 4547311645
Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 6th 2018 at 10:13:32 AM

[up][up]eh I said similar, not identical tongue. But my point still stands that the magical elements are used as devices rather than central elements.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 6th 2018 at 7:13:50 PM

Dec 6th 2018 at 10:18:33 AM

There's a lot of controversial things in the story, so it's not surprising that it touches a nerve with some people. Flying off the handle about Micaiah was basically the hallmark of the GameFAQ RD board.

I personally enjoy most of it, but have always had three main gripes: super generic supports greatly slim down which characters get attention (Base Conversations only go so far), the Blood Pact feels like a seriously poor excuse to drive the Daein portion of the Part 3 plot and Spoilernulf ruining what should have been a key dramatic reveal.

Edited by KuroiTsubasaTenshi on Dec 6th 2018 at 12:24:22 PM

http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi http://www.fimfiction.net/story/120195/the-necromancers-ambition
Sterok Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Dec 6th 2018 at 10:22:55 AM

Hurry up and remaster the Radiant duo Nintendo so that I can actually say stuff about them besides "I like Ike" and "Micaiah sounds cool, why isn't she more popular?".

Your preferences are not everyone else's preferences.
Dec 6th 2018 at 10:24:56 AM

[up]x2 I still have to disagree on that point. There's this looming threat of the dark god magically waking up because everyone got into a huge war. This is something outside the characters' normal understanding that is somehow able to just know that a threshold has been reached and wake the dark god. This is Ashnard's goal. Yes, he's taking a somewhat more mundane route to it, but his central motivation is setting off some kind of magical trigger with no mundane explanation to it.

http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi http://www.fimfiction.net/story/120195/the-necromancers-ambition
Dec 6th 2018 at 10:28:51 AM

You guys want to know about the sad part about the Blood Pact? The localization at least tried to make it a plausible plot device.

Fire Emblem Heroes Code: 4547311645
Dec 6th 2018 at 10:30:22 AM

I do have to give them credit for that, especially since they also fixed one of the lamer things around the Black Knight: the explanation for why Ike won in Path of Radiance.

http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi http://www.fimfiction.net/story/120195/the-necromancers-ambition
erazor0707 The Unknown Unknown Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Unknown Unknown
Dec 6th 2018 at 10:39:42 AM

The RD localization tried their hardest. I remember reading up the differences in versions and being glad I was exposed to the English version first. I wouldn't have liked RD as much as I do.

Edited by erazor0707 on Dec 6th 2018 at 10:41:22 AM

Copyright? Plz, I'm a troper.
RodimusMinor Not actually a minor
Not actually a minor
Dec 6th 2018 at 11:00:27 AM

I'm craving more Waifu Emblem so I booted up Awakening on Hard Mode and got my butt kicked, so I dialed the difficulty down to Normal and have been steamrolling the competition. I want to do Hard because I'd actually have to think instead of just sending Chrom and Robin to sort shit out, but it's tough getting over the initial few maps.

Dec 6th 2018 at 11:21:21 AM

When I first heard of the Blood Pact, I always wondered if it might be better that the person signing the Blood Pact got some sort of major benefit from it, to really hammer in the whole Deal with the Devil bit and make it easier to understand why someone might sign it, and to make the getting screwed over part even more tragic for those who had good intentions from signing it.

I kind of get that they were probably going for "People get tricked into signing these things" and that it's probably more like a supernatural version of what a loan shark might do to their victims, though. Still think it might be better if it was definitely more Deal with the Devil, though that's a personal preference.

Dec 6th 2018 at 11:46:59 AM

[up][up] Chrobin can roll through Hard, too. And Lunatic. And Lunatic+ (requires a lot more setup, though). Robin's just that busted. Try abusing Fred for his huge +Def bonus when paired to someone. A lot of the enemies in early Hard can't really hurt units backed up by Fred.

[up] They could have played up the benefit a lot more (even if it was a scam), which might have alleviated some of the believability problems. If it looks like the recipients were promised the world, then reneged upon, then it wouldn't seem like they signed a one-sided contract for no apparent reason.

http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi http://www.fimfiction.net/story/120195/the-necromancers-ambition
VampireBuddha [DATA EXPUNGED] from Right behind you. Just keep typing. Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
[DATA EXPUNGED]
Dec 6th 2018 at 11:56:34 AM

[up][up]The benefit Pelleas and Naesala got was their respective kingdoms not being slaughtered to a man.


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