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NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#59426: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:27:23 AM

[up][up][up]That.

Oboro and Saizo basically pulled a "You're one of the good ones"

I would also like to add that Leo is flatout racist against the Hoshidans in his Birthright chapter by calling them backstabbers. But Corrin pretty much says "No they're good people. They treated me well"

So even Hoshido's sole gray flaw, their racism, is only seen as wrong if a NOHRIAN does it.[lol]

edited 27th Jul '16 9:30:00 AM by NoName999

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#59427: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:29:19 AM

[up]Yeeaaahhh there's pretty blatant favoritism in Fates- which is an absolute shame because the story could've been so much better without it.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
RangerJackWalker Since: Sep, 2010
#59428: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:34:41 AM

[up][up][up]The same gimmick is repeated again and again and again in pretty much all of his supports. And he's hardly the only gimmick based character. Modern FE practically runs on character gimmicks as a substitute for good writing.

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#59429: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:37:13 AM

[up][up]Maybe it's just me but issues of racism in Japanese games seem to have this notion that the VICTIM has to prove him or herself to not be deserving of bigotry (Darcsens, Half Elves, etc)

At least the West, for all of our racist history, it's the bigot who says "I done goofed" when he/she fucks up in fiction

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#59430: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:40:42 AM

[up][up]Ooooooorrrrrrrr it is good writing by having consistent character traits throughout supports, having them developed differently or looked at through a different lens based on whom they're interacting with.

This is also ignoring the fact that- just because a character is quirky it doesn't mean they can't be well-written or developed.

[up]I agree- it's easy to see the less-favorable aspects of japanese culture appear in some of this game.

edited 27th Jul '16 9:43:20 AM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#59431: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:40:59 AM

I'd argue that Xander's speech applies to the campaign as a whole more than that current situation, though. No matter the ideals they tried to carry prior to Garon's arrival, they're still ideals. Sometimes bad shit like that slaughter happens the best they can do involves mitigating what little they can and letting people get thrown under the bus. So I suppose I agree that that very specific situation is black and white, but disagree that Xander's speech was solely addressing said situation.

With regard to Benny's stuff being unfunny, I'll freely admit that I cringed pretty hard with Corrin's support with him. I'd say it's a good thing in a way, in terms of characterization, though, because it addresses the whole thing with making shit up about him. The exaggerations being so dumb only serves to show how ridiculous everyone else is being.

One one that I'd like to point out that I think handle's Benny's situation more maturely is Oboro's with him up to S. There's still some weirdness with it (like the script continually justifying Oboro's racism yet again), but Oboro actively works to get over the knee-jerk reaction or being freaked out by him. In fact, I'm not sure if specific exaggerations even come up in that line.

FE: New Mystery Only Feet 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Umamusume Haru Arima 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#59432: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:42:45 AM

@NoName: I think it might have something to do with Japan (and most Asian countries) being horribly racist and also thinking that if someone's being looked down on, they have to prove they shouldn't be looked down upon.

[up][up]I think at this point we should stop feeding the troll. There's no point in arguing with him.

[down]I can be calling you a lot worse than a troll, because you're seriously acting in an inappropriate and rude manner, I'm just being nice about it.

If you don't like how Fire Emblem is now, no one is stopping you from leaving.

edited 27th Jul '16 9:51:40 AM by BlackSunNocturne

RangerJackWalker Since: Sep, 2010
#59433: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:45:09 AM

[up][up][up]It is consistent in how bad it is. It's the same ridiculous shit over and over again with no variation aside from what the exaggeration in question is.

[up]If all you can do is call me a troll, then you really are pathetic.

edited 27th Jul '16 9:45:41 AM by RangerJackWalker

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#59434: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:50:52 AM

Honestly, I liked Benny's supports with the Avatar. Not only does the Avatar realize that their initial interactions with Benny was less than stellar, they also make an attempt to reach out to Benny and see what sort of person he is beyond the frightening exterior. I also liked how it establishes Benny as the sort of person that won't hold a grudge and does what he can to ensure other people are safe. Truly the sort of person who deserves to be a knight.

No, I would not call him a gimmicky character. His character traits are solid: frightens easily but still stands his ground, not one to hold a grudge, protective of loved ones, and a friendly guy if you're willing to take the time to get to know him. Are these character traits used very often in stories? Yes, but it's the execution that matters, not the originality. And I feel that with Benny, those character traits are solid enough that I could believe there's someone like him that actually exists.

edited 27th Jul '16 9:53:16 AM by dragonfire5000

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#59435: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:52:09 AM

[up]EXACTLY. Honestly, Corrin's supports with Benny are amongst my favorite.

edited 27th Jul '16 9:54:49 AM by BlackSunNocturne

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#59436: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:54:35 AM

[up][up]Same here! I really like Benny's character and how it's shown throughout supports- especially since there's a lot of subtle details about his person that you can pick out.

edited 27th Jul '16 9:54:54 AM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#59437: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:54:39 AM

To be fair, most of the quirks can be blamed on the English localization; Effie for instance talks about her muscles maybe once or twice in her My Room quotes, and even then barely, while the localization has half of those quotes talk about her muscles in some way.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
RangerJackWalker Since: Sep, 2010
#59439: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:55:15 AM

The issue is that it is repeated again and again. It's not funny. It's not good writing.

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#59440: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:57:51 AM

It shows a consistent character and world-building, and shows the character develop in different ways in regards to who they are, regardless of whether it is funny or if its even supposed to be funny.

Please explain how it isn't good writing.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#59441: Jul 27th 2016 at 9:58:19 AM

[up][up][up][up]And yet the core aspects of Effie's character are still apparent: sure, she's prouder of her strength in the English version, but her protective nature and willingness to lend a hand to others (even if her methods of helping really don't help at all) are still there.

Then again, my reaction to Effie's localized characterization was "Meh." Still, anyone saying that she's Sully 2.0 is really, really stretching things. After all, Sully was characterized by having to deal with people not believing she was fit to be a knight and having to prove them wrong; Effie didn't have to deal with that sort of discrimination, so her characterization goes a different direction.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#59442: Jul 27th 2016 at 10:01:52 AM

[up][up]Because apparently to them, consistent character writing is bad character writing if the character has a "gimmick" (read: character trait)

RangerJackWalker Since: Sep, 2010
#59443: Jul 27th 2016 at 10:02:20 AM

[up][up][up]It is bad writing because the depth of Benny's character (or lack there of) can be done well in one single support chain. Instead, it is repeated with no variation again and again. It's bad and lazy writing.

[up]It is consistently yes, but that doesn't make it good. It can be done well with a single support chain and if you only take a few of his supports and that was the extent of his gimmick, then I would have no problem with it. It is the same with characters like Yarne. Just the same tiresome gimmicky nonsense over and over again.

edited 27th Jul '16 10:04:26 AM by RangerJackWalker

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#59444: Jul 27th 2016 at 10:06:03 AM

[up]This is evidently not the case- Benny/Oboro, Benny/Corrin, Benny/Charlotte, and Benny/Elise are all very different supports that focus on different aspects of Benny's character- even if it derives from the fact that Benny is terrifying it isn't bad writing since its a major aspect of Benny's life that affects his daily life and interactions with everyone.

And this applies to nearly every character in both Fates and Awakening, not just Benny.

edited 27th Jul '16 10:07:41 AM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#59445: Jul 27th 2016 at 10:10:28 AM

Speaking of Benny, one support I really like is his support with Hayato. We have Hayato trying to get Benny to go into a dark cave in a courage competition, and I really like how it shows Benny really doesn't mind if people call him cowardly. But what I also really like is how it shows how he deals with people trying to antagonize him: he doesn't rise to the bait, and he doesn't hold a grudge.

Benny really is the sort of friend I would love to have in real life.

Also, while I'm on the subject of Hayato, I've seen people say that he and Ricken are basically the same character. I disagree, and the reason I disagree is because while their attitudes are similar, they have a different reason for why they don't like to be looked down on.

For Ricken, he hates being looked down on because he wants to impress other people, particularly Chrom. He feels that if people treat him like a child, he'll never be taken seriously as a member of the Shepherds.

For Hayato, he hates being looked down on because he's in a position of high responsibility. As the adopted son of Fuga, he naturally faces pressure to be seen as a responsible and capable individual since he'll probably be expected to lead the Wind Tribe some day.

The difference between the two may seem small, but I love that the difference is there in the first place.

edited 27th Jul '16 10:16:09 AM by dragonfire5000

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
RangerJackWalker Since: Sep, 2010
#59446: Jul 27th 2016 at 10:11:03 AM

[up][up]No, it really doesn't. The gimmick of everyone being so deathly afraid of him or exaggerating his feats doesn't even make any sense.

Take Mozu. The first thing that happens is that she mistakes him for a bear. Okay, maybe at a distance. Then he talks and the first thing that comes to her mind is not "oh wait, that's not a bear" but instead "a talking bear?" Is she literally retarded? That leap of logic makes no sense. And so many people behave like that around him. It's just stupid.

edited 27th Jul '16 10:12:45 AM by RangerJackWalker

BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#59447: Jul 27th 2016 at 10:15:47 AM

Well, Mozu is a country bumpkin

[up][up]Benny for Best Fire Emblem Bro

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#59448: Jul 27th 2016 at 10:31:11 AM

[up]Undoubtedly. His support with Azura pretty much sums up what I like most about his character. He empathizes with other people easily, he listens to their problems, and he's always ready to lend a helping hand.

On the subject of supports, I really like the Avatar/Camilla support chain. This is because it not only shows how adventurous Camilla can be (she'd have to be in order to find all those places to visit), but it also shows that Nohr isn't a total wasteland like the concept art (as a reminder, concept art does not always reflect the final product; they are merely ideas that may or may not have made it into the product completely) suggests.

Camilla mentions how there is a field of flowers, a cave full of sparkling crystals, and a hot spring (of course), showing that there is beauty in Nohr and that, despite its harsh conditions, life still finds a way to flourish there.

edited 27th Jul '16 10:49:44 AM by dragonfire5000

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#59449: Jul 27th 2016 at 11:14:11 AM

In Boo Camp, Camilla mentions a grove of man-eating trees.

Let's just split the difference and say it's an interesting place. Though between Cyrkensia and Macarath, entertainment seems to be high on their list of priorities.

Bewitching Eyes
IceAnt573 Forever not amused. Since: May, 2015
Forever not amused.
#59450: Jul 27th 2016 at 11:30:01 AM

I wonder RJ Walker if you ever seen this thread on /r/fireemblem and what exactly you think of it.

It is a bit funny..."gimmick" has become sort of a dirty word in /r/fireemblem last I checked.

edited 27th Jul '16 11:32:26 AM by IceAnt573


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