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KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#58851: Jul 12th 2016 at 6:10:38 PM

Well, you don't have to have Sages, especially because you have Limit Breaker. Sages more or less just optimize damage output, Hit and Dual Strike chance (with the latter two providing maximum reliability). Sorcs should be close enough in stats that I don't think it's a huge deal.

For the non-Vantage enemies, you just want to straight up fight them. The idea is to weaken them (with Mire, since that's what you brought, but Luna Longbow Snipers can fit the role too) until you can kill them with 2 Vengeance hits and the 4 Dual Strike hits. This allows you to kill them at any range and not care if they can counterattack (which is helpful for getting around Counter). For Vantage enemies, you still want to weaken them to the same state as above, but then position yourself so that they attack your VV unit on EP (thereby triggering you Vantage).

Since you're not using Luna Longbowers, see if you can find a spot in your team for the Rallybot. This should help give your Mire and VVers a bit more leeway in their damage output.

Also, don't be afraid to use Galeforce to escape enemy range after securing the kill instead of trying to stick around to kill more enemies. Turn limits are lax enough that it's better to spend a few turns consistently killing 2 enemies than to get yourself way out of position trying to down them all in one turn.

Oh, and make sure you keep staff users around. If you can safely deal damage, but aren't unsure about securing the kill and triggering Galeforce or are using a pair that just plain doesn't have Galeforce, Rescue is an easy way to get in free damage, then pull your units to safety. It can also be used aggressively in some places, such as to gain the first strike against the squad of Dark Fliers.

And most importantly, if you're not using the first wave of Generals to intentionally take heavy damage, make sure you're doing so. Then make sure you don't heal. VV becomes wildly unreliable if you don't have the units primed to do huge chunks of Vengeance damage.

FE: New Mystery Only Feet 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Umamusume Haru Arima 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#58852: Jul 12th 2016 at 6:30:57 PM

I see.

VV unit

Took me a sec to realize this was vengeance / Vantage.

I see. So I gotta take a risk and let my guys get low health, but also make sure to keep them out of range of enemies as well huh?

That's fine line to walk. And it's better to let enemies attack you especially if you have VV.

I had some people with Galeforce, but in some cases took it off them to make room for Limit Breaker, All Stats, Vantage, and Vengeance (and also Lancebreaker, which I was told I'd need for Anna...who I haven't even gotten to yet).

Right. I'll be even more careful from now on

Only a few guys have Armsthrift as well (once again, not enough room with both Vengeance, Vantage, Limit Breaker, All Stats, and Lancebreaker).

I think I need to decide who needs what, and who I want doing what as well.

One Strip! One Strip!
KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#58853: Jul 12th 2016 at 6:37:52 PM

Yeah, Apotheosis requires you to have units with very defined roles because your stats and skills need to be optimized in one direction. One exception is with Rallybots, who can do both rallies and pull Rescue duty if they're Falcos or Sages (Falcos are generally preferred for their mobility, though).

Anyway, the idea with VV units is that they're actually generally safe so long as their damage output will kill the enemy. If you attack first, you get 2 Vengeance hits and 4 Dual Strikes (since the partner should also be using Celica's or some other brave), which should be able to take off over 60 HP at a time (and this is low-balling it). If the enemy attacks first, your Vantage will trigger and you'll get the exact same set of attacks before the enemy can act. Therefore, it's a pretty safe build so long as you're using it properly (basically just ensure you've done the math to make sure your Mire users have put the enemy in range of dying to the first volley).

FE: New Mystery Only Feet 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Umamusume Haru Arima 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#58854: Jul 12th 2016 at 6:41:18 PM

Alright. Tomorrow is both my birthday, and my Avatar's birthday.

Lets see if I can give myself a nice present and finally put this thing away.

One Strip! One Strip!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#58855: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:42:43 PM

Say, when you defeat them in POR, both the Black Knight and Ashnard say the phrase "not enough." Anyone know what this meant? Not enough war to wake the Dark God?

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#58856: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:48:39 PM

It's a term with pretty broad meanings. It could mean "not enough conflict to awaken the Dark God" or "Not enough skill on my part, now I am bested" or "Not enough, I need more power" or so on.

edited 12th Jul '16 7:49:02 PM by Pulse

I sure said that!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#58857: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:54:44 PM

I just feel like having both the main villains say it upon defeat must mean something. The word "enough" comes up a couple more times in significant scenes too IIRC.

edited 12th Jul '16 7:58:21 PM by HamburgerTime

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#58858: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:58:42 PM

It's pretty clear they both mean not enough gun.tongue

<Ducks a brick>

One Strip! One Strip!
Ekimmak Since: Nov, 2010
#58859: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:03:29 PM

Wait a second.

All of Anna's relations are also called Anna.

Corrin is the only man who can marry Anna, and Corrin's child just happens to be called Kanna.

I don't know where to go with that connection but it feels nearly canonical that Anna is M!Corrin's wife or something.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#58860: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:43:24 PM

An amusing thing I found out recently: on modern Blazing Sword tier lists, Marcus and Nino's positions have done a complete reversal from what they were at the game's launch. Nowadays Marcus's non-combat utility is seen as vastly outstripping his EXP hogging, and Nino is regarded as more trouble than she's worth. Interesting, no?

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#58861: Jul 12th 2016 at 9:52:38 PM

[up][up]I made that connection right when Anna came out [lol] It would be really cool if Anna was the "canon" wife to Corrin.. and it makes sense too- both of them deal a lot with outrealms, the Kana name situation, and the fact that she's the only person Corrin can marry on all routes that doesn't prevent you from losing a kid.

I really hope Anna appears as a marriageable unit in the next game too. She's too perfect not to keep appearing.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#58862: Jul 12th 2016 at 11:18:26 PM

[up][up] Never underestimate the utility of a Jagen.

Or how long they can last before they need to switch out either.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#58863: Jul 13th 2016 at 2:50:06 AM

It helps that he's damn near the only way to go Seal hunting.

I sure said that!
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#58864: Jul 13th 2016 at 6:50:10 AM

Or to get early stat-booster items in a reasonable time.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
pblades Since: Oct, 2009
#58865: Jul 13th 2016 at 6:51:45 AM

So, is there any hope of a PC release on the horizon?

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#58866: Jul 13th 2016 at 7:18:40 AM

@ Hamburger Time,

I would say Izuka, who seems to be behind all of the dark magical stuff going on in Daein. It might have been Sephiran, but one would think Ashnard would have later recognized and outed him for being associated with weird dark magic.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#58867: Jul 13th 2016 at 1:07:43 PM

Say, does Fates have any genuinely nasty villains you can coax to your side with a really obscure method? I kinda like this recent trend; it began with Oliver in Radiant Dawn, skipped Shadow Dragon, but then returned with Michalis in New Mystery and the Secret Thief (is he even a spoiler anymore?) in Awakening.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#58868: Jul 13th 2016 at 1:11:33 PM

Nope. Unfortunately, in the era of you-have-to-marry-anyone, obscure recruitment methods (and characters with no connection to the protagonist in general) seem to be off the table. That's one of the first things I'd change for FE 15, honestly.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#58869: Jul 13th 2016 at 1:17:00 PM

Well, there are the ones who come from upgrading certain structures to level 3. There's enough of a disconnect there that I think that people would only find out by looking it up or stumbling right into it. I suppose there's also a sort of inverse case where Kaze un-recruits since he'll die in Birthright unless he has an A support. The game gives zero indication that that's a thing.

FE: New Mystery Only Feet 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Umamusume Haru Arima 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#58870: Jul 13th 2016 at 1:22:35 PM

There's also the capturing mechanic which lets you capture and persuade a couple bandit bosses to fill your team if you have a Prison built.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#58871: Jul 13th 2016 at 2:06:56 PM

Honestly, I really don't miss the really obscure recruitment methods. I really don't mind if they're in future games as long as there are enough hints for someone to piece together how to recruit them, but stuff like Stefan's recruitment in Path of Radiance I would like to see out of the franchise or at least tweaked to be less Guide Dang It!.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#58872: Jul 13th 2016 at 2:09:09 PM

I weep not for the death of the obtuse.

I sure said that!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#58873: Jul 13th 2016 at 2:11:33 PM

I wouldn't mind them keeping capturable bosses around, though I wish they at least had level-up/critical quotes, My Castle (or whatever will replace it) functionality, and and all that stuff. I can accept them not having Supports.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#58874: Jul 13th 2016 at 2:24:54 PM

What would you all want in an Elibe remake(s)? I'd like a way to get all of Wallace, Geitz, Harken, and Karel on one go-through, and recruit Fargus and maybe Bramimond.

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#58875: Jul 13th 2016 at 3:08:48 PM

[up]While I really prefer a new game that continues restricting fewer classes by sex and allowing more same sex S-ranks, I will admit that there are three things I really want:

  • Ninian as a playable Manakete
  • The ability to pry Eckesachs out of Zephiel's cold dead hands and use it for the rest of the game
  • A useable Ereshkigal tome

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."

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