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Was Metroid Other M the right direction? (NO FLAME WARS PLEASE)

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Signed Always Right Since: Dec, 2009
Always Right
#326: Oct 11th 2010 at 1:10:16 PM

I stopped taking the "avatar-less guy who's name I don't remember"'s argument too seriously the moment I realize he compares people who made something he doesn't like with Lucas...

And he appears to like making a lot of stuff up and demand other people to find proof of the stuff he made up.

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
myhandsomevolcano Since: Dec, 1969
#327: Oct 11th 2010 at 1:17:44 PM

I stopped taking the "avatar-less guy who's name I don't remember"'s argument too seriously the moment I realize he compares people who made something he doesn't like with Lucas...

Interesting. So why did you feel the need to express this(Rather offensive) opinion?

SparkyLurkdragon Sophisticated as Hell from Southeastern Oregon, USA Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#328: Oct 11th 2010 at 1:28:26 PM

Dude, Volcayno, I agree with some of the stuff you're saying, but attacking the tone of someone's argument - especially when they're not being at all offensive - is, well, Tone Trolling.

I can see the Lucas parallels what with the Original Veezion crap, and have in fact used it myself to explain to a friend why I was so frustrated with OM, but I agree it's an encouraging sign that Sakamoto seems to want to listen to feedback. Personally, I feel Other M was a heck of a lot of wasted potential, and I'll wait for next mission to make a call about the series' direction.

Signed Always Right Since: Dec, 2009
Always Right
#329: Oct 11th 2010 at 1:34:46 PM

^^ The very existence of this discussion implies you should have such knowledge beforehand. I don't need to babysit you.

.........

.........

.........

okay, sry, I just couldn't resist. But seriously, when someone asks you to cite something like that, unless it's 100% obvious even a brick could find the source, you cite it. Especially in a flamewar that is split up in 3 different threads, all of them rather long(this one alone went up to 14 pages).

edited 11th Oct '10 1:36:17 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
Rebochan from Kalevala (Y2K) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#330: Oct 11th 2010 at 1:49:06 PM

I also dislike the needless condescending tone you put forth towards me. At least, that's how -I- interpret it. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in this assertion.

Dude, you are the one that came in here and acted rudely on a very polarizing topic. There's plenty of people in here that are being civil.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/metroid-interview/

It's the very first result you get from googling "Sakamoto Metroid Vision". He discusses his "Vision" there.The whole reason Other M was made was because people wanted another 2D Metroid. I really doubt Sakamoto knows how to listen to an audience if he made this abomination.

I also dislike the needless condescending tone you put forth towards me. At least, that's how -I- interpret it. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in this assertion.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/metroid-interview/

It's the very first result you get from googling "Sakamoto Metroid Vision". He discusses his "Vision" there.

Yes. At the prompting of the interviewer.

Wired.com: So, then, what is your vision of the ultimate Metroid game?

Sakamoto: Within the greater Metroid series, the Other M story will tie together the stories that took place in Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion. One of my goals is to present Samus as an appealing human character, and that involves explaining a little bit about what happened in her past as well as the characters that influenced her. The story will play a big part. There’s another facet to the Project M team, and they’re responsible for creating the cinematics, some of which you saw in the trailer yesterday. Of course, Metroid is a very sophisticated action game as well. So our goal is to create an experience that is seamless between the cinematics and the actual gameplay, and creating a game that anyone can play that is only playable on the Wii.

Hayashi: One of our concepts that we like to keep in mind as we’re progressing through development is to create Samus Aran as this very appealing, the ultimate female heroine in the game universe, so we’re keeping that in mind.

How is answering a question exactly as you were asked "Lucas-like"? I hate to break it to you, but I think pretty much any creator has a vision about their work and answer questions about it all the time.

http://www.gamestm.co.uk/interviews/yoshio-sakamoto-discusses-metroid-64-metroid-dread-and-the-unwritten-future-of-the-warioware-series/2/

An ANCIENT interview from nearly a month ago describes how he "Just can't compare" Super Metroid and Other M because he was involved in both.

Hey, remember how the last time I asked, I said "in context"? It was precisely because of things like this:

It’s quite interesting that the company you mention didn’t feel confident following up on Super Metroid. That’s something that happens even now with fans comparing every new game to the SNES version. Does it frustrate you that you made something so good that nothing else appears to come close to it?

We have just launched Other M in Japan and I’ve been checking user opinions on the Japanese bulletin boards. What you say is definitely true; many of them are saying that they prefer Super Metroid. So it gives me some mixed feelings to hear that. It’s complicated simply because to me Super Metroid and Other M are both products that I was deeply involved with. So as far as I’m concerned, I don’t have to compare the two. It’s definitely true that Super Metroid was a good game but it is one of many good games in the series. Of course, there was the choice for me to work on a game more similar to Super Metroid but I don’t know if that would represent a true evolution of the series. We might be able to come up with a better Super Metroid but, some day sometime, we would work ourselves into a creative dead end if we were simply moving forward in one direction. I, myself, have been seeking new stimulations and new play feels with the games that I’ve been working on so at least I am trying to avoid repeating the same things.

I definitely consider the feedback of those players that prefer Super Metroid but the fact of the matter is that Other M has other features that must be exciting and appealing to the audience. It’s only a few days since the game’s worldwide launch and at this point I’m anxious to learn the initial reaction from the public but, on the other hand, I’m always looking forward to reading the comments and feedback once those players have completed the game for the first time. Perhaps their opinion will have changed by then.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get out of that that has anything to do with what you've been stating about a madman pursuing a dream beyond reality. Hell, I've actually read this interview a few times actually, and this very question shows him being highly aware of the fandom and their love of Super Metroid.

You never cited anything Lucas-like either beyond "I don't like him". Not even a similar quote from George Lucas to use a barometer.

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#331: Oct 11th 2010 at 4:24:25 PM

Now this is starting to turn into a flam war. It's not there yet, but if this heats up, I will be forced to report this.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
RocketDude Since: May, 2009
#332: Oct 11th 2010 at 4:52:22 PM

Can't people just write the game off? It seemed to work for Command And Conquer: Sole Survivor and Highlander 2: The Quickening.

Honestly, the debates over this game makes me want to make a comparison to something controversial, but I don't wanna in fear of invoking Too Soon.

edited 11th Oct '10 4:52:44 PM by RocketDude

SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#333: Oct 11th 2010 at 5:06:26 PM

Let's try again. Maybe my argument won't be badly misrepresented this time. Luckily Rebochan addressed most of that nonsense along with the stuff aimed at her. Thanks.

A. Sakamoto is a lot more open-minded to criticism then Lucas ever was. Sakamoto is sincerely willing to change his mind on the course of the series if he thinks people don't like Other M's direction. As far as I can tell, Lucas didn't care at all.

  • And this time, please do not go off on a completely unrelated rant on Sakamoto's "ability to listen to an audience." It's about whether or not he is willing to listen to feedback, and that he's willing to accept he's wrong. I'm pretty sure that Lucas, on the other hand, wasn't.

B. He won't make Other M 2 if he sees the reception to Other M 1 is poor. He took a gamble, and he wants to know if it paid off.

This means that even if he thinks Other M is the best Metroid game ever, he won't take the franchise in that direction if the rest of the world thinks the opposite.

edited 11th Oct '10 5:45:14 PM by SpellBlade

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#334: Oct 11th 2010 at 5:08:17 PM

I think the problem is that people think that Other M is going to get a sequel in the same vein. Personally, I don't really think it will unless it actually outsells any of the other Metroid games, and we are talking about a franchise that is a million seller here. Yes, Metroid, Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion, Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 3 all sold at least a million copies each. Hell, Metroid and Metroid Prime are almost tied for the best-selling of the Metroid series getting to 2 million.

edited 11th Oct '10 5:09:56 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#335: Oct 11th 2010 at 5:11:19 PM

"B. He won't make Other M 2 if he sees the reception to Other M 1 is poor. He took a gamble, and he wants to know if it paid off."

That latter point is also why I watched the sales. So far it's tracking well below Metroid Prime 3, the last new game of the series before this. By its five week mark, Prime 3 sold just under 700K, while Other M is so far selling under 500K after five weeks.

About the only region where sales are better is Japan, but that was only from a larger opening. The legs still dropped off.

edited 11th Oct '10 5:13:05 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#336: Oct 11th 2010 at 5:11:34 PM

1. I don't think Other M's selling that well. ^Ninja confirming this.

2. A sequel in the same vein isn't very likely if enough people don't like the first one, as Sakamoto said.

Edit: The second point doesn't mean *just* sales, he's also referring to critical/fan opinions.

edited 11th Oct '10 5:40:30 PM by SpellBlade

Rebochan from Kalevala (Y2K) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#337: Oct 11th 2010 at 6:29:47 PM

Honestly, the debates over this game makes me want to make a comparison to something controversial, but I don't wanna in fear of invoking Too Soon.

It's like Hitler!

...wait...

RocketDude Since: May, 2009
#338: Oct 11th 2010 at 6:35:20 PM

I was thinking something more...recent. Point is, it makes me want to plug my Internet ears.

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#339: Oct 11th 2010 at 6:44:23 PM

Okay, I say this is just a video game with a poor execution.

It's not World War II. or September 11, or anything like that. I think we can all agree on that part, even if you don't like the game.

edited 11th Oct '10 6:44:58 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#340: Oct 11th 2010 at 6:46:34 PM

I wonder what would happen if someone compared Sakamoto to Masato Kato...

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#341: Oct 11th 2010 at 6:48:41 PM

I'll just say that game should have been standalone.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
RocketDude Since: May, 2009
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#343: Oct 11th 2010 at 6:51:32 PM

^^ That would be the hypothetical comparison.

Rebochan from Kalevala (Y2K) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#345: Oct 11th 2010 at 7:04:41 PM

Hey, I'm just speculating. Please do not kill anyone.tongue

edited 11th Oct '10 7:12:06 PM by SpellBlade

Rebochan from Kalevala (Y2K) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#347: Oct 11th 2010 at 8:04:48 PM

Well that's the last time I ever bring that game up around you.grin

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#348: Oct 11th 2010 at 8:21:06 PM

^ ...not for me. tongue

edited 11th Oct '10 8:21:25 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#349: Oct 11th 2010 at 8:50:18 PM

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, I'm kinda sad that I can't ever tell if avatar less peoples are trolls or not... I mean, it IS kinda suspicious how first post is very good flame war starting material...

Anyway, yes, please continue. That was amusing :3

SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969

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