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TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#501: May 1st 2010 at 10:36:55 PM

I second what Barkey said. Burst is usually used for suppressive fire or firing on a group of enemies. Shotguns and smg's do make excellent shipboard weapons.

Who watches the watchmen?
WoolieWool Heading for tomorrow Since: Jan, 2001
Heading for tomorrow
#502: May 1st 2010 at 11:45:17 PM

I thought burst was most useful for defeating high-grade body armor. If the first shot doesn't get through the second and third will.

edited 1st May '10 11:45:36 PM by WoolieWool

Out of Context Theater: Mike K "'Bloody Pussies' cracked me up"
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#503: May 2nd 2010 at 1:06:20 AM

You could execute what is called the failure drill on a target you believe has body armor. Two shots to the chest the third to the head. Works for pistols, smgs, shot guns, and Assault rifles

Who watches the watchmen?
Iverum from outside the key Since: Jun, 2009
#504: May 2nd 2010 at 1:47:55 AM

I've always heard that referred to as the Mozambique Drill.

dysfunctional human artistry
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#505: May 2nd 2010 at 3:48:48 AM

You are correct Iverum, different names for what is basically the same thing.

From a practical perspective, it's very rare for police to be firing at people with armor, and unheard of for insurgents to wear it in the middle east. It's practicality in todays climate is more for law enforcement to put someone down who is on a drug like PCP.

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#506: May 2nd 2010 at 8:30:20 AM

Anybody know anything about the .338 Lapua round? There's a news report that a sniper in Afghanistan double killed a pair of Taliban machine gunners from 1.5 miles with a weapon chambered for that.

WoolieWool Heading for tomorrow Since: Jan, 2001
Heading for tomorrow
#507: May 2nd 2010 at 10:10:42 AM

Since this thread has a lot of Complaining About Gun Politics You Don't Like, has any jurisdiction actually tried to honestly regulate guns by their destructive potential and utility to criminals instead of cosmetic features and other bullshit?

Out of Context Theater: Mike K "'Bloody Pussies' cracked me up"
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#508: May 2nd 2010 at 11:30:19 AM

Most likely. You just don't hear about it because it's not badly done. I think Canada does it though.

Fight smart, not fair.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#509: May 2nd 2010 at 12:03:12 PM

The Lapua .339 Magnum round is a nice beast.

Who watches the watchmen?
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#510: May 2nd 2010 at 8:42:50 PM

Ok I have been doing some digging. The one variety of 5.56mm that really fragments and causes wounds like it is supposed to is the South African variety. Again South Africa makes a worthwhile weapon system.

Who watches the watchmen?
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#511: May 2nd 2010 at 9:28:04 PM

All the cool stuff comes out of South Africa these days, what's up with that?

Fight smart, not fair.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#512: May 2nd 2010 at 9:49:40 PM

Dunno but they have nice weapon techs/ Must be those secret nazi's they have designing their stuff.

Who watches the watchmen?
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#513: May 2nd 2010 at 9:50:28 PM

It hasn't been a very nice place over time, and they probably sell weapons to the unstable countries to the north.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
WoolieWool Heading for tomorrow Since: Jan, 2001
Heading for tomorrow
#514: May 2nd 2010 at 9:53:44 PM

Well South Africa made a pistol that would go off if you dropped it so not everything that comes out of South Africa is a great weapon.

What do you think of the ergonomics and layout of these gun designs I did for my sci-fi stories? I tried to avoid huge cinderblocks or awkward "space guns" that nobody could hold or aim properly.

M32 gauss rifle

M44 compact gauss carbine

M27 carbine/PDW

M7 semi-automatic pistol

edited 2nd May '10 9:54:50 PM by WoolieWool

Out of Context Theater: Mike K "'Bloody Pussies' cracked me up"
Nornagest Since: Jan, 2001
#515: May 3rd 2010 at 12:11:21 AM

Looks a lot like the XM 8 family to me, the reaction to which was... mixed. But I'm not an expert.

edited 3rd May '10 12:11:48 AM by Nornagest

I will keep my soul in a place out of sight, Far off, where the pulse of it is not heard.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#516: May 3rd 2010 at 12:27:04 AM

Not bad designs overall. Hard to tell from the rough sketches. But your basics are sound and similarly in line with modern weapons.

Who watches the watchmen?
Iverum from outside the key Since: Jun, 2009
#517: May 3rd 2010 at 1:12:02 AM

The carrying handle on the M323 seems to be in the way of the ACOG sight. And exposing the magnetic coils on the end of the barrel seems to be a bad idea to me. Fouling those up could ruin accuracy or worse.

The M44 looks a little awkward with the magazine and foregrip in that configuration. A bullpup design might be more ergonomic as well as provide more coils to build up speed. Also, same thing about the exposed coils.

The stats on the M27 seem a little high. It's muzzle velocity is greater than that of the M24, which would make it awkward for use as a PDW. Also, why is it's burst fire rate faster than it's full auto? However, this is the coolest design so far.

The pistol looks pretty standard as far as pistols go. Still a high muzzle velocity for a pistol.

Okay, I'm done obsessing over fictional guns. Sorry.

dysfunctional human artistry
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#518: May 3rd 2010 at 7:10:28 AM

Actually Ive, the theoretical rate of fire for semi and burst is higher than that of full auto, assuming you could trigger squeeze that fast.

The actual mechanical capabilities are anyway. Full auto is deliberately a little slower than it COULD be for the sake of avoiding jams.

I've been trying to coach Woolie on accessory placement on his weapons for the sake of comfort for the soldier, I have to admit he does do pretty good drawings.

Iverum from outside the key Since: Jun, 2009
#519: May 3rd 2010 at 7:13:22 AM

Ah, I did not know that. How interesting. I'm assuming that there is such a high limit because you don't have to worry about jams at the rate of a human finger?

dysfunctional human artistry
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#520: May 3rd 2010 at 7:55:03 AM

Pretty much. It's one of the reasons many paintball guns use a double tap trigger instead of being full auto. With a double tap trigger you have less of a chance of chopping a paintball with the bolt, and you can almost equal the rate of a fully automatic function with practice using the double tap.

WoolieWool Heading for tomorrow Since: Jan, 2001
Heading for tomorrow
#521: May 3rd 2010 at 9:38:28 AM

The carrying handle on the M323 seems to be in the way of the ACOG sight. And exposing the magnetic coils on the end of the barrel seems to be a bad idea to me. Fouling those up could ruin accuracy or worse.
The ACOG is not obscured by the carrying handle; the front bit of the carrying handle is hollow, with no front and back panels—the ACOG can look right through the gap. I'm thinking the visible "coils" could be a sheath covering the actual coils that would double as a heat sink, which would also explain why the barrel is so large.

The M44 looks a little awkward with the magazine and foregrip in that configuration. A bullpup design might be more ergonomic as well as provide more coils to build up speed. Also, same thing about the exposed coils.
Since it's on a rail, the foregrip could be moved forward a few inches. As for a bullpup design, the M44 is based on the M32; to use a completely different design would ruin the economies of scale.

The stats on the M27 seem a little high. It's muzzle velocity is greater than that of the M24, which would make it awkward for use as a PDW. Also, why is it's burst fire rate faster than it's full auto? However, this is the coolest design so far.
The muzzle velocity of the M27 is only slightly higher than many 5.56 rifles used nowadays (1050 m/s compared to ~950) due to a more sophisticated 23rd-century propellant. 5.56x45 is a very fast round. I should've raised the 9.6mm muzzle velocity a bit, 331 m/s is a bit slow compared to actual 9mm SMGs (around 400 m/s). As for burst fire, it's designed so that you can put multiple rounds in the target before you feel the recoil; the Russian AN-94 rifle has a similar feature. Full-auto is limited to 595 rpm to make it more controllable, and for the fact that the 1800 rpm is sort of a mechanical trick and only works for the first two or three rounds.

edited 3rd May '10 9:43:38 AM by WoolieWool

Out of Context Theater: Mike K "'Bloody Pussies' cracked me up"
Iverum from outside the key Since: Jun, 2009
#522: May 3rd 2010 at 9:52:43 AM

Well, that all makes sense then. I've never looked into the 5.56. I had no idea it had such a high muzzle velocity.

dysfunctional human artistry
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#523: May 3rd 2010 at 11:53:20 AM

Yep its a cooker.

The way 3 round boost does functionally fire faster then a full auto. For 3 rds its controllable for a full auto not so much. The reduce cyclic rate reduces felt recoil, muzzle climb, ammo expenditure, and heat. All major limiting factors in a full auto weapon.

Who watches the watchmen?
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#524: May 3rd 2010 at 12:24:26 PM

Well I heard one of the biggest reasons for ditching full auto was because the M16 series of rifles has shit for reliability. Full auto clogs the gas system with fouling and shortens time between failures significantly.

Which is funny, no piston gun ever made has such a problem that full auto is less reliable than burst. Most of them are on parity with each other. The M14 and AKM for example can fire again and again and again on full auto and not fail due to their long stroke pistons. (Actually hitting anything with either on full auto depends on the shooter.) Their primary limitations in fire rate are the piston's length and barrel heat. (Long-stroke pistons generally have a lower fire rate than short stroke pistons of similar operation)

WoolieWool Heading for tomorrow Since: Jan, 2001
Heading for tomorrow
#525: May 3rd 2010 at 12:37:53 PM

The "shit for reliability" issue is only true for very early examples that were issued with shitty ammo and not cleaned properly. The current A2-A4 models are no AKs, but they are quite reliable. Full-auto was taken out because Vietnam-era conscript soldiers tended to spray and pray with it, so we disabled it to make them aim properly. We also disabled full auto on the M14 once we realized that it was mostly useless.

edited 3rd May '10 12:38:38 PM by WoolieWool

Out of Context Theater: Mike K "'Bloody Pussies' cracked me up"

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