Takin' it easy
If we're going to start up the discussions of Kogasa vs "someone who is always prepared for everything and can therefore not be surprised" we might as well move on to Kogasa vs Batman. :P
Modern relations between human and youkai are relatively peaceful compared to how they were in the past. perhaps this whole tentative peace is the result of a single human-turned-youkai who, one thousand of years ago, helped many youkai escape death and sealing in exchange for simply being leaving other humans alone.
Baseless theory ahead: In terms of Yukari meeting Byakuren, maybe they already knew each other. Perhaps Yukari was even among those saved by Byakuren. Yukari could still be considered a young youkai one thousand years ago and may not have gotten a full grasp of her boundary abilities yet. Yukari is now a very powerful and influential youkai and could conceivably convince other youkai to stand down on hunting humans.
Anyway, on to Nue... I got nothin'
Funny but not helpful
Actually, I heard some interesting new information about Houjuu Nue on the INTERNET. I'm not sure if its fanon or canon or cannon or what but supposedly she had a group of followers, knights in fact, before she was sealed who would fight her enemies and do her bidding all while chanting her name.
I believe their name, loosely translated was the Knights Who Say Nue.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Gentleman Adventurer!
The problem for our hypothetical hax-level Kogasa is that if she ever got half the reputation Yukari has, the only thing she would be capable of doing anymore would be to lose.
Your funny quote here! (Maybe)
bocaj
why
edited 12th Apr '10 7:21:23 AM by Fawriel
Funny but not helpful
Because I'm a bad person.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
^^^Again, Brickman, that's why she usually lets people think she's bad at surprises.
^Yes you are, and we love you for it 
edited 12th Apr '10 8:48:58 AM by Zudak
This. Cannot. Continue.
This one
gives me a Jägermonster vibe.
If Nue's disguised form depends on a viewer's experiences and knowledge, then what the hell was wrong with the guy who described her as a monkey-tiger-tanuki-snake? Satori would have a field day. Or run away screaming.
Hmm, maybe that's why Nue got sealed? She raised some hell, someone confronted her, realized that they'd been terrified of a little Goth girl, and sealed her away out of intense shame.
I'm starting to wonder how many youkai are card-carrying villains. The Yuuka-Shikieiki thing came up earlier, and now here’s Nue equating "massacring humans" with "just being a youkai."
That’s the big question lurking just under the Touhou series’ surface – what is the proper relationship between youkai and humanity? Youkai prey on humans, humans exterminate youkai. Is this just the natural order of things, or an old tradition that a few characters are working (intentionally or not) to progress from? What about those on either side of the conflict who make things personal, despite their opponents merely playing out their required roles? It’s like a Cold War with elements of fantastic racism, and could form the overarching story of a sweeping epic RPG or something. But here it is as part of the excuse plot for a danmaku game.
All life begins and ends with Nu. This is the undeniable truth, because I believe it to be so. At least for the present.
— The Mystery of Life, Volume 841, Chapter 26
edited 12th Apr '10 11:05:09 AM by Tacitus
Current earworm: "Awe of the Unknown"
Youkai have to terrorize humans and get 'exterminated' in turn to keep youkai strong (and strong youkai are essential to Gensoukyou's survival). None of this has to be fatal or even particularly unfriendly, though.
edited 12th Apr '10 11:37:39 AM by Hylarn
Supports are too mainstream
I think the whole Youkai + Humans getting along is a rather recent innovation. Akyu says as much in Perfect Memento, noting that things were very different now than they were during her last reincarnation, which was probably around 1 century ago. Characters like Nue and Byakuren are not used to the current peace between humans and youkai, and thus may say some outrageous things when they first appear, since they're all newcomers to Gensokyo. Yuka is sort of an anomally, an ancient Youkai who still remembers the old days yet is content to live with the present. Those who still act like vicious maneaters, like Rumia, I'd assume are just too young to have learned the ways of the world.
If you look at the youkai who are older and accustomed to living in Gensokyo (the Yakumos, the kappa, the tengu, the rabbits, etc.), I think you'll see the true nature of youkai in Gensokyo. Newcomers and newborns will adapt eventually.
The cow eats Fruit Loops at midnight.
I am now a shiny stone~
Gensokyo is basically one of the last few natural preserves where Youkai can live peacefully and indulge in scaring people if they please without being persecuted endlessly by bigoted exterminators. Of course, they still need to be "tamed" by the Hakurei, but at least there is no risk of being permanently snuffed out like outside of Gensokyo, thanks to the Rules of Engagement Danmaku Play.
One Winged Egret
No, all the bigoted exterminators moved into Gensokyo with them. What they're hiding from are people who don't believe they exist and don't care. As creatures of fantasy, that's a Fate Worse than Death.
I am now a shiny stone~
Not all of them did, otherwise we would really have a shortage of youkai.
The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Minimalist
Reimu should like, make Gensokyo into a walk-in zoo and charge admission. The way it's been described is basically like a nature preserve.
NEETing now.
I am now a shiny stone~
She should accidentally the boundary where the Hakurei Shrine merges with the real world, so people who donate on one side can step through into Gensokyo :V
This way, I can visit should I ever find the Hakurei Shrine on our side of the Border.
The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Gentleman Adventurer!
No, I'm pretty sure it actually is death.
Anyways, it is stated or explicitly hinted in a few places in cannon (or at least I think it is) that the Youkai more or less need conflict; whether not having any opportunities to engage in fights makes them shrivel up and die or just get antsy I'm not sure (though I get the impression it's just the latter and an issue of their personalities). Thus the brilliance of Reimu's spellcard system—it has all the therapeutic benefits of beating the snot out of your rivals, friends and random passers by new acquaintances, but with none of the costs (ie anyone getting hurt). Everyone still hands out smack-talk as if it was serious, because if they're gonna roleplay epic battles they might as well do it right, but when the curtain falls Mystia is not really eaten, Moukou's entrails remain where they belong and anyone poor enough to lose to Rumia still won't become dinner.
That's what I think the cannon universe is like/supposed to be like, anyways. As universes full of "monsters" go, it sounds like a pretty sunny and idealistic one to me. So I'll grant Reimu her self-appointed title of "Wonderful Shrine Maiden of Paradise" simply because she's gone such a long way towards making it true. Of course, comedies aside this universe would make for terribly boring fanfiction, so fans are forced to make Dark Fics of at least some small degree almost by default, and I seem to have discovered that unless they're purely comedy I like them more the darker they get.
Your funny quote here! (Maybe)
Neither statement is quite accurate. What happened was that Gensoukyou was one of the few areas with a high youkai population left when people started denying their existence (somewhat over a hundred years ago). Since Youkai apparently have some level of Clap Your Hands If You Believe involved this is bad for them. So they surrounded Gensoukyou in a barrier of common sense, taking the humans that were already there with them. Since the appearance of the natural order of youkai terrorizing humans and human exterminating youkai in turn is important, they created the duel system used throughout the games to do this with out endangering either side.
edited 12th Apr '10 10:37:37 PM by Hylarn
Minimalist
^^I just got a hilarious image of them battling it out with nerf weapons. How inclined to follow the rules are they? There ought to be some youkai that just don't care.
edited 12th Apr '10 10:37:10 PM by Knighted
NEETing now.
For the record, this is all spelled out in Akyuu's monologue.
This means that the spell card system isn't Reimu's invention, as fanon often has it.
edited 12th Apr '10 10:41:22 PM by Hylarn
I am now a shiny stone~
I suppose Reimu merely formalized the Spell Card rules.
Youkai who won't play by the rules get put down before too much harm can be done to the balance.
The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
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Yuyuko Saigyouji
Theme:
Border of Life (PCB), Bloom Nobly, Cherry Blossoms of Sumizome ~ Border of Life (IaMP), Bloom Nobly, Cherry Blossoms of Sumizome ~ Border of Life (SWR), Border of Life (last spellcard theme), Ultimate Truth (stage theme)
Traits:
- Obfuscating Stupidity
- In fact vastly intelligent and cunning
- Playful trickster who outsmarts people in conversation without having them even realize it
- Pollyanna
- Very peaceful, kind and carefree
- Gourmet or gourmand?
Relationships/Shipping:
- Youmu (her bodyguard, gardener, comedic foil and favorite butt of tricks)
- Youki (former gardener, Youmu's (grand-)father and master)
- Yukari (old friend)
Write-up:
Dead and loving it. The Ghost of Flawless Immaculate Beauty. The tragic princess, Yuyuko. Born over a thousand years ago as the princess of the Saigyouji clan, her control over spirits grew until she gained the power over death itself... A power so terrifying she could not bear to live with it. She committed suicide. In the afterlife, her mastery over ghosts, as well as her great sense of responsibility concerning her powers impressed the yama so much that she was made the princess of ghosts who manages the dead souls. One day, she learned of a dead body sealed under the cherry tree in her garden that has never bloomed before. Out of curiosity and the desire to grant life rather than take it, she wanted to break the seal on the tree and thus resurrect the person underneath... Unbeknownst to her, it was her own body, and breaking the seal would only serve to kill her. She will never reincarnate, and her powers will only bring death.
In spite of her dark backstory, Yuyuko is perpetually cheerful and friendly, if perhaps not very honest and a little sneaky in her playfulness. She has abandoned all worries; though perhaps she is still very concerned with those she loves. Yuyuko's personality is a conflict between a very simple personality and a very complex one, a person who only wishes to surround herself with that which she loves, but possesses a soul and mind even bigger than her stomach.
Is it possible to make her lose her cool? Is she aloof or just carefree? Does she love, or just play around? And where does all that food go?
Similar characters:
- Yukari (classy, ancient, mysterious but playful, these two combined could turn the entire world into a wondrous playground - and you would like it)
Okay, I have to get this out of the way: I love Yuyuko. She is in an eternal battle with Cirno for my number 1 spot and I almost didn't dare to write this one myself out of fear of inadequacy. I am literally sitting in a bathtub filled with sakura leaves just to get in the right mood for this! Though I did lie about the leaves.
What do I love about her? For one, she's just plain lovable. She's funny, she's interesting in her contrasting personality, and in the end, even if she messes around with someone, you still know that she's a wonderful person because Jesus Christ she impressed a yama with her goodness. And as if that wasn't enough, her backstory just gives her amazing depth in symphony with her personality - a woman who took her own life out of love for her fellow people, now enjoying her existence to the fullest with no regrets... The only problem I have with her is that I have never seen her lose her cool, and I can't imagine what she spends her time doing, which makes her hard to relate to... And to top it off, her butterfly theme is such a beautiful display of power that it brings tears to my eyes.
And yet, I have a terrible shortage of good pictures of her.
This, of course, must be rectified, as you will no doubt agree.
I do have some doujin, and there's one that I'm particularly fond of... it's ecchi. It sounds lame, but that doujin actually has some really great characterization, great art, not all that much in the way of pornographic concent, and I can only recommend it. There's another really short one which is also very witty (and pretty hot) but... really short, so it's not really worth examining here, though I'll gladly link if there's interest.
I do wish I had some more serious works concerning her... But until then, I'll be happy with that manzai I linked to for her appearance and voice, because I think both are pulled off perfectly in it! Though she could still be a little bit meatier, don't you think~
Now, other stuff.
Awww, Akyuu. That article was not just enlightening, but pretty sad as well.
The "belief" aspect of youkai makes me wonder. It seems to put them on the same level as gods, who of course need prayer badly... Not only that, but it seems that youkai can even be created in a similar way, as shown by the cherry tree in Yuyuko's backstory: It was originally just a very beautiful tree, but when its beauty drove more and more people to follow the lead of a poet and die under its crown, it developed into a youkai that actively lured people in...
edited 13th Apr '10 12:27:58 PM by Fawriel
The Ghost of Years Past
Since it looked like we were going to Yuyuko, I've already done a Yuyuko Playlist and an imagedump below.
Ruki's Picks(By Name): Silver Forest - Border of Life (Vocal)(Probably my favorite song out of them)
Touhou Unplugged/Classic 110
Seventh Heaven Maxion ~ Border of Life ~ Ultimate Blossom ~
CYTOKINE - across the border of life
Silver Forest - everlasting
WAVE ~ - Border of Life
SYNC.ART'S - Ultimate Truth
Vocal Rega Sound
Touhou Unplugged/Classic 5
Touhou Unplugged/Classic 160
Overall, Yuyuko's songs were...interesting. I was surprised by the number of arranges I didn't like, including Demetori's, especially for such a beautiful starting song. For quite a while, it didn't look like the Yuyu playlist would get past the number the Nue playlist did!
However, as you can see, a late push put Yuyuko past Nue in total arranges. While Border of Life(All versions) had better high point arranges, I felt the average on Ultimate Truth arranges was better. Is it just me or does Ultimate Truth not get enough love on being mixed and matched?
I hope this playlist will suit your fancy. As of now, it is only 34 videos long, but some of them have quite a running time. Because Yuyuko had so many songs, I'm not quite done, but I felt 34 was enough to release Yuyu at.
I also took the liberty of pre-arranging an imagedump for Yuyuko. I originally planned on doing 50 pages worth of Danbooru + my favorites, but my computer needed a restart at 40, so I left it there. I might go back and do more.
Yuyuko really gets a lot of nice images.
Even ghosts, it seem, have to keep themselves cool.
Well deserved in the "Disgustingly Adorable" pool.
I simply pray for snowy days...
Yuyu really gets a lot of beautiful art, doesn't she?~
A brief reminder to not get on Yuyuko's bad side.
Is it just me or does she look...bored here? I guess we're not giving her an entertaining fight.
Good old fashion fun, guest starring Satori.
At the eye of the storm, a woman of beauty.
Yuyuko eating a strawberry in way too good a manner...
You don't want to fight me, do you...?
Grace and elegance. Yes, these are what Yuyuko radiates in these situations.
Hat off? Check. Smiling? Check. You're so screwed.
Another case where you have clearly fucked up!
Classic ghost research with Yuyu?
Yuyu can be so adorable sometimes.
I'm running out of comments again.
Yuyu and Youmu cosplaying as Byakuren and Shou.
The first comment says it all.
Smiling Yuyuko, Youmu drawing her sword...you are clearly fucked!
Yuyuko and Youmu team up to melt off ALL your teeth.
The post of me actually explaining my thoughts on Yuyuko will come later. Probably soon. I should also take a look at that doujin you posted.
For now, I hope I did this good. Enjoy~
Funny but not helpful
The Ghost of Years Past
Hahaha...
I remember reading that a while back. It's good for some laughs.
One Winged Egret
Yuyuko is awesome.
I think it's worth noting that despite her tragic past, she doesn't even remember it (I think). She's been dead far longer than she's been alive, and her past life is a footnote in her history that she doesn't seem to care about in the slightest. While it's easy to bring up in stories about her, she is not a tragic character, and that's part of her appeal.
A portrayal of her that annoys me slightly is that she's a Kirby-esque food vacuum cleaner. I think it's more likely that she's a connoisseur who likes to try new things. I feel like she's fundamentally sort of... artsy. In a somewhat high class but not arrogant way. She appreciates the finer things in life, including but not limited to food, poetry, dancing, whatever. She likely spends her free indulging and experimenting. She's whimsical and confident enough to make up her own styles, and probably doesn't care in the slightest if she fails.
She's a princess in the classical sense and it shows. Unlike, say, Tenshi who's just a rich spoiled brat, Yuyuko is unconsciously elegant. Even when she's making bad jokes or playfully throwing a tantrum, there's something refined about her. Honestly, she sounds kind of like a Mary Sue the more I describe her, but she's self-aware enough to stay out of spotlight when she needs to.
Personality-wise, she's very playful. Obviously she indulges in Obfuscating Stupidity, probably for the purposes of getting people to say what she wants to hear from them. Her favorite target is Youmu, who's simply so straightforward that she can't resist. Given that she's, well, dead and immortal at this point, she has very few worries and likely never shows a serious side. Even if there are things she does seriously care about, she's more likely to show it playfully and deal with it playfully. She simply has no reason to ever go into "serious mode" and has enough control over herself to never slip up. Defusing a serious situation with humor would be her style, if it ever came to that.
Speaking of self-control, in SWR she immediately realized what was going on and changed the nature of her own soul in order to get the weather she liked. She's, like, literally enlightened and has transcended her own nature. Which isn't to say she's an emotionless robot or anything, but she's completely in control of herself. I'd imagine this is why she finds messing with people with so much fun. Since she herself holds no mysteries left to explore, she looks towards other people in a kind of vicarious introspection. People in general are a vast ocean that she delights in exploring. Or something. Hopefully that made some sense.
Anyway, she's "high level", personality-wise. And as much as she loves messing with people, that ultimately makes her somewhat lonely. Luckily for her, there's someone else out there who can almost keep up with her. Yukari. Or maybe Yukari's slightly ahead. Neither of them know, and that's half the fun. They've been friends for centuries, likely one of the few unchanging elements of both of their worlds. While they may or may not be romantically involved, at the very least they're Heterosexual Life-Partners. * They probably enjoy mentally poking at each other, whether that be through classic old lady games like Mahjong and Shogi or through Gensokyo-spanning Xanatos Gambits. They can read each other's minds quite well, but since both of them are constantly doing so they end up in some infinite regress of constant surprises. Which is just the way they like it.
May add more later.
edited 13th Apr '10 1:18:01 PM by Clarste
In hindsight, maybe listening to Hartmann's Youkai Girl while reading this page was not such a smart idea. Now I'm all jittery. But gee wiz, Ruki, you really did find this thread too late, didn't you? With all these new things coming up in my life, I'm starting to think I really should hand over the role of the moderator to one of those motivated newcomers...
All I have to add is that Hylarn's comment, dismissive as it was, actually made me think that Nue as a counterpart to Kogasa works pretty darn well. Both are youkai destined to scare people and be outcast for it... but one of them is bright and optimistic, while the other is pessimistic and spiteful.
Welp! Let's see if any of those pictures you dumped correspond to that surprisingly exact image I have of Nue in my head...
Ooh, the very first one
is not just very close, but also looks amazing. Okay, not that close
, but DAMN
. To clarify, I see her hair as REALLY short and fuzzy, with a kinda heart-shaped face with a pointy chin and otherwise child-like features. Maybe I should just draw it myself... ... *looks at the original picture again* ... Okay, where did I get that short hair from?
In terms of hair
, this one is actually still pretty close to my (wrong) idea, but the face seems too longish... And this one
is very close except I see her as really, really slender... Oh hey! This one.
This one seems very close! I like it! I mean, I liked a lot of these, but I was specifically looking for ones close to my mental image, yes? Because I'm too lazy to actually draw them myself, yes? This one
... is somewhat generic (in terms of face and all), but seems like a good choice for a generally accepted appearance? This one's nice, too
, though it's only a portrait...
I also like the picture of her in the background of the Unknown Girls
song video ... and I guess my idea of her hair might have been influenced by this one
... though that's not as short as I had in mind, either. And it's a different outfit and she kinda lacks a hipbone. STILL!
Man, I wonder if anyone else here actually does the whole "mental image" thing. I guess I might as well try drawing a portrait of Nue in class today and scan it later...
... Yuyuko soon, eh? Ohohoho~ *wiggles fingers*