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Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#11401: Jul 24th 2011 at 10:28:32 PM

[up]Done the absolute bare bones. Could definitely be improved.

Also, for some reason, I can't edit the Negima Thread Ideas page.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#11402: Jul 24th 2011 at 10:57:17 PM

Odd. It's working on my end.

Anyway, what would be a good name for Ala Alba as an Ace Combat Zero 'ace' squadron? They mostly follow a color-based Theme Naming in German for the Belkan squadrons (since the country as an obvious shout-out to Germany), so.... Logic dictates that they would be Weiss (Ger. "white"), but that lacks the impact of Ala Alba/White Wing. It's... well, I think "too short" might be the problem.

edited 24th Jul '11 11:06:56 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#11403: Jul 24th 2011 at 11:20:22 PM

[up]Sounds good to me. (Oh, too short. I see the problem. What if that's just part of their name like Alba is part of Ala Alba?) I'm trying to update Iwao Yukino's entry with her name, but I keep getting kicked out.

edited 24th Jul '11 11:28:59 PM by Sereg

IniquitusTheThird Laugh into the rain. from Wossname. Since: Dec, 2010
Laugh into the rain.
#11404: Jul 25th 2011 at 12:02:13 AM

Weisse Fluegel, perhaps? ('ue' stands in for 'u with umlaut', I've found.)

Storm and trouble won't make you make you lose your way. (Tits might, though.)
SCMof2814 Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#11405: Jul 25th 2011 at 6:49:54 AM

Just finished reading Negimaru and...

And...

...

sad

WAH! CHISAME-SAN! LET ME GIVE YOU A HUG!!!! Absolutely no funny business, I swear!

Such pathos! Such pain! Are we SURE this wasn't really written by Akamatsu-sama? It seems to hint too much of current manga events...

The standard of writing has gotten higher for me. I look at all our works and find them wanting.

...

EDIT: also, FEAR CHISAME'S COSPLAY-FU! Pipiru piru pipirupi...

edited 25th Jul '11 7:17:26 AM by SCMof2814

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#11406: Jul 25th 2011 at 7:50:06 AM

[up] You sound like you need your own hug, man. Then again, considering how Negimaru turns out... sad

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
SCMof2814 Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#11407: Jul 25th 2011 at 7:54:13 AM

Let's just say I consider it in the same league as PMMM.

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#11408: Jul 25th 2011 at 9:31:50 AM

Negimaru is too far on the Dark Fic end of the scale for me. Way too depressing.

And why do so many people equate "tear jerking" with "well written"? I mean, isn't there any other way of measuring writing ability other than by how sad it makes you?

edited 25th Jul '11 9:34:00 AM by JapaneseTeeth

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Darkenning She's Back Since: Apr, 2011
She's Back
#11409: Jul 25th 2011 at 9:38:43 AM

@SCM: We are fairly sure that it wasn't written by him; however, it's pretty likely that he's read it, judging by this page of the manga.

If you won't I'll slit your throat/Won't you please be nice?
NoLimit Since: Oct, 2009
#11410: Jul 25th 2011 at 10:33:00 AM

[up][up] It's because the story was able to bring out an emotion from you. If a story is capable of making you sad and tear up, it usually means it was written well enough to make you care.

Of course, there are points where stories can be extremely manipulative in order to make you sad and cry.

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#11411: Jul 25th 2011 at 10:33:42 AM

Eh, Negimaru is good, but not perfect by any longshot. The tying of its end to the beginning of Canon Negima felt forced, Nagi felt like a Deus ex Machina, and the Mood Whiplash between chapters, and even parts of a single chapter, was too abrupt for my liking.

If you want a far superior work by the same artists, check Evangelion: Re-Take.

NoLimit Since: Oct, 2009
#11412: Jul 25th 2011 at 10:35:23 AM

Actually, now that I think about it, Madoka Magica might have been extremely maniplative in making me sad and cry. tongue

Darkenning She's Back Since: Apr, 2011
She's Back
#11413: Jul 25th 2011 at 10:53:25 AM

Decadent 31 continues.

Running across rooftops wasn't something Makie had ever expected to do. (Parts of it did seem a little familiar, but she decided not to examine that too closely.) Fortunately, the buildings in this area were pretty closely packed together, so she didn't have to make ridiculous leaps between them. It was still a little surprising how far she could leap, though. Rhythmic gymnastics wasn't about such maneuvers, after all, and she didn't think she was drawing on the pactio to augment her strength or speed.

Very mysterious.

It was almost as mysterious as her companion, who hadn't said much of anything after their introduction, other than to give her directions on which way to run. Makie found herself wondering why the other woman had decided to stick her neck out the way that she had, even though she was grateful. But there wasn't really a delicate way to ask that question, was there?

They paused to catch their breaths, and Makie looked over the side of the building down to the street below. The sight was horrifying. Takane, along with Mei and Nutmeg and a few of the school's teachers, were effectively pinned down by a group of mechanical creatures. The stalemate had been going on for a while now, judging by the mechanical shells that were piled up around the defenders.

"Should we maybe help them?" Makie asked 'Tomoko'.

The other woman had started shaking her head even as the question started to leave Makie's lips. "If you go down there, you might help to even the odds. But eventually, the people who are chasing you will realize where you are, and come after you, putting those people in even more danger than they already are. It's better not to involve other people in your problems, even if they aren't of your own making."

She couldn't help herself. "You involved yourself in mine," she pointed out.

The woman's eyes went distant. "Yes, but I'm one of those annoying blood type B people who go around sticking their noses in where they don't belong," she said; the toneless quality of her voice made the reflective look on her face seem very strange.

"I like people like that," Makie told her.

In response, she let out a soft 'heh'. "Come on, break's over. It's just a little further to your safe place," she told her, and then they were running again.

Sure enough, it was just a few more buildings over that they spotted the Chao Bao Zi on the ground below. Makie could see Ku Fei and Mana dealing with the last of about a dozen demons as they arrived, leaving the plaza where the streetcar was currently parked clear.

"Better get you down there in a hurry if you don't want to miss your train," 'Tomoko' told her, before quickly grabbing her around the waist and leaping out into the air above the plaza. She came down hard not far from where Mana had just double tapped a demon, and the shootist whirled to see what had just arrived.

And then Makie saw something she'd never expected to see in her life. Outright panic on the perpetually composed face of Tatsumiya Mana. "You?" the mercenary shouted. "What are you —" And then she had her twin pistols up and pointed right at them. "Step away from her, now."

Makie, moderately freaked by this turn of events, obligingly stepped away from the other woman. "Tatsumiya-san, it's me! It's Makie!" she told her, wondering whether she might have been exposed to some sort of weird psycho-gas or something.

"I know who you are, I'm not talking to you, Sasaki — stay the hell away from my classmate, you!" she yelled at 'Tomoko', who had started to raise her hands in what looked like a calming gesture to Makie.

"She's an innocent, Tatsumiya," the other woman told her. "She's not seeing what you are. You're looking well, incidentally."

"I'd like to remain so," Mana bit out. "Sasaki, please head for the car, I think we're about to lift off."

The order grated on Makie's nerves. "Excuse me, but I think I'm going to thank the person who helped me out of a real jam, first." She turned to look at 'Tomoko'. "I'd like to thank you for your help, Tomoko-san, but I don't think it's right to do that to a fake name."

The other woman blinked, and smiled. "So you guessed, then. I'm impressed."

"Why is Tatsumiya-san so frightened of you, anyway?" Makie asked quietly, trying to make sure that the subject of her query couldn't hear it.

"Because unlike you, she's not an innocent, and so she doesn't see what an innocent would see."

"Ahhh," Makie said, nodding. "Because she's not innocent, she sees things that aren't there."

"Actually, it's because you're innocent that you see things that aren't there," the woman told her, smiling faintly. "But that's not really important. Anyway. My name, not that it matters, is U—"

Before the word could fully pass her lips, the thrusters on the Chao Bao Zi began to spin up, drowning out the word. Makie turned to look at the train car, somewhat annoyedly, then turned back to ask the woman to repeat herself.

She was gone without a trace.

Makie felt Mana's hand on her shoulder. "Come on," the mercenary told her, sounding a lot calmer now. "We've got to go now if we're going at all."

"Tatsumiya-san?" Makie asked as they ran for the car. "What did you see when you saw her?"

"... good little girls don't need to know such things," replied Mana, wondering, as she had the first time she'd seen that woman, how someone could walk around with a thousand swords stuck through them.

If you won't I'll slit your throat/Won't you please be nice?
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#11414: Jul 25th 2011 at 11:39:58 AM

Unequally, Continuation.

"M-Miyazaki-san?" Ai gasped as she sprang back to her feet, wiping her eyes before bolting for the door. She was even more mortified at finding it half-open, but said nothing on the matter. "S-Sure, get in! Sorry, I hadn't noticed you were here..."

"It's okay, I just arrived," Nodoka smiled, lying just a little, and walking into the room at a sedate place, seeing Ai was making sure of closing it for real this time. "W-Well, like I said, please forgive Haruna. If she hadn't brought that topic in the first place, nothing of that would have happened. She's a good girl, but often doesn't think things through before saying them..."

Ai sat down on her bed, looking miserable. "No; it's my own fault for being so childish and impulsive. I allow everyone's words to get to me, although I'm afraid I'll look aloof and arrogant if I don't. Matoi-chan is right when she says I shouldn't be looking at Itoshiki-sensei that way, even if not for the reasons she gave... Not that I'm saying she's a horrible judge of character, a hypocrite, and/or someone I will never forgive for speaking ill about him, of course...!"

Nodoka actually had to gesture for her to calm down.

"... Sorry," Kaga offered sheepishly.

Miyazaki breathed in. "Kaga-sempai, I know we barely know each other, and I shouldn't be meddling into your personal affairs, but I can say you're a good person. You don't need to blame yourself over everything that happens."

Ai gave her a token nod. "I know, please forgive my overreacting."

Nodoka sighed inwardly. It couldn't be that easy, could it? Ai had surely been through that very same conversation dozens if not hundreds of times before, with everyone from relatives to classmates to teachers. Just hitting the old chords of the problem wouldn't work.

So she asked frankly, "Would you like being Itoshiki-sensei's companion?"

"Ah..." Ai glanced down with a tied tongue.

"You spent some time with Chamo-san as Negi-sensei trained," Pyscho Purple said. "Now, I know Chamo-san well, so I feel confident guessing he gave you that idea. Didn't he?"

Ai nodded docilly.

Nodoka exhaled. "Kaga-sempai, much like Haruna, Chamo-san is a good... person, but he often talks more than he should. If that's your dream, I won't discourage you on it, but keep in mind, Itoshiki-sensei might not be ready for that kind of relationships yet..."

Then Ai's voice came very weakly, but still somewhat sourly, as if some of her inner resentment cracked through a tiny narrow hole in the grotesquely thick layers of her self doubt. "... And Negi-sensei is?"

Nodoka made a stunned pause before lowering her head as well. "Maybe not. Circumstances just... forced it all upon us. I won't deny we all, but mostly him, have been forced to mature before our time. Maybe that's for the best, maybe not. Perhaps the same things will happen to you, and that's also something none of us can say if it'll turn out for the better or worse. But, you know, Sempai, I don't regret anything of what I've done."

Ai nodded slowly.

"I suggest you to find your own time, when both of you are eady for it, but in the meanwhile, never ever lose your faith, and trust yourself. Even if it doesn't work out, you are a pretty, charming girl, and you always can make a path for yourself through life."

"Mmm-hmmmm," Kaga made another token nod, clearly not fully believing her, but not wanting to adverse her.

Nodoka decided to leave it there for now. Rome, after all, wasn't built in a single day. That would take a lot of time and effort...

She knew it from personal experience.

"Feeling better now?" Miyazaki asked gently.

"Y-yes, I do."

"Good. Remember, I'm available whenever you want to talk about anything, okay?"

"Sure. Thank you for taking your time to try and help me, I'm such a source of problems for every—"

"Kaga-sempai..."

"Sorry. I'll work on it, I promise."

Once Nodoka was gone, Ai sat alone, perfectly still and in complete silence, staring at a wall.

Then there was a crafty chuckle coming from her window. She recognized the voice by now, not needing to look back at him. "Chamo-san?"

The ermine hopped onto one of her shoulders. "Nee-chan, you've been thinking about my proposal, haven't you?"

"Yes."

"Got any conclusion on it yet? Not like I'm hurrying you up or anything, but-"

"I'll be graduating this year," Ai mused softly.

"Ah? Ah, yes, of course," the ermine nodded jerkily. "But what does that—"

"After I graduate, I won't have any reason to keep on seeing him," said the high school student. "I'll lose him forever. Miyazaki-san's right; too often, we just can't do the right thing."

"Oh, a Pactio is always a good—"

"Sorry for disagreeing, but no, not always. Even I can say. But I have to do it anyway, right? Just like she did. And hopefully, someday, I'll be able to say what she just said, 'I don't regret anything'..."

Chamo's eyes shone at the last part, basically ignoring everything else. "So, you mean—!"

She nodded, finally looking at him. "Y-Yes. I want to be Sensei's partner."

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#11415: Jul 25th 2011 at 11:51:03 AM

@No Limit: The thing is that people apply that meter only to sadness. Say you have two works, one sad and one happy. They can both evoke the same amount of emotion from the reader, but sad one will usually be more better received than the happy one. It's like people assume that writing is better if it helps you sympathize with the characters' pain rather than their happiness.

In any case, my main issue with Negimaru is that once you get to a certain level of grimdark-ness, it just doesn't feel like Negima anymore. It wasn't like reading a Negima story; it was like watching a bunch of other characters dressed as Negima characters.

Also, I need to add some stuff to the Out of Control page when I get off of work.

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NoLimit Since: Oct, 2009
Sinclair Scriptor Referens from Deep Space Since: Jan, 2001
Scriptor Referens
#11417: Jul 25th 2011 at 1:56:01 PM

[up]Make that True Art Is Awesome.tongue

Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.
Darkenning She's Back Since: Apr, 2011
She's Back
#11418: Jul 25th 2011 at 1:56:28 PM

[up][up] Let me just offer an "on the other hand" perspective, considering that I like Negimaru quite a bit.

Asking the audience to empathize with a fictional character's happiness runs the risk of turning into bragging about that character's happiness, which can easily turn into bragging about the character in general. Further, the audience might not be able to grasp the particulars of a given character's contentment.

In contrast, everyone has endured pain, suffering, and hardship in their lives, so even if they can't always empathize with the specifics of a given situation, they can certainly grasp that this is, for that character, just like that time that they were [and so on]. At least, they can do this if they have the ability to empathize with someone else at all.

Basically, the old saw "Dying is easy, comedy is hard" only tells part of the story. It's easy to do comedy badly just as it's easy to do melodrama; genuine emotion of either stripe is not easily conveyed.

If you won't I'll slit your throat/Won't you please be nice?
NoLimit Since: Oct, 2009
#11419: Jul 25th 2011 at 2:04:45 PM

[up] Forgive my simplistic argument, which I actual deploy often since I find them effective, but I believe that the problem is that it's stuck on making everything upsetting. I haven't read the fic, but I assume there's no "Earn Your Happy Ending" type of achievement from it. It's as if it's wallowing in its own self-inducing "I'm sad, so I'm making you sad as well." It's just too much, I guess.

edited 25th Jul '11 2:05:00 PM by NoLimit

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#11420: Jul 25th 2011 at 2:12:47 PM

Negimaru isn't a fanfic per se, but a hentai doujin.

edited 25th Jul '11 2:13:11 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Darkenning She's Back Since: Apr, 2011
She's Back
#11421: Jul 25th 2011 at 2:18:44 PM

[up][up] You're mistaken. There is a happy (or at least hopeful) ending. Now, whether you like the ending is up to you.

If you won't I'll slit your throat/Won't you please be nice?
NoLimit Since: Oct, 2009
#11422: Jul 25th 2011 at 2:21:09 PM

[up] Like I said, I never read it. [lol]

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#11423: Jul 25th 2011 at 3:37:40 PM

@Darkenning: I'm not saying that sad writing is automatically bad, just that on the whole I think it tends to be better received than lighter material even if the two are equally well written. It doesn't bug me that sad stuff is out there, but the fact that tragedy seems to always get bonus points for some reason irks me. Kind of how like Oscar Bait movies are always tragedies of some kind. They can still be good, but you'd never see a comedy win best picture, regardless of how well written it is. So to sum it up, my issue is that the genre seems to influence how the work is received; the critical response should be based solely on the skill involved in the writing, not the subject matter, style, or genre. Of course, if the genre is used incorrectly, that's a skill issue on the part of the writer, not a problem with the genre itself.

edited 25th Jul '11 3:41:27 PM by JapaneseTeeth

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SCMof2814 Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#11424: Jul 25th 2011 at 3:56:40 PM

Eva's panties, what have I done? I've turned this thread towards discussions of (shudder) lofty and erudite aspects of the art of writing! WAH! PLEASE FORGIVE ME!

I'M IN DESPAIR. MY COMPLICITY IN TURNING US AWAY FROM NEGIMA HAS LEFT ME IN DESPAIR!!!

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#11425: Jul 25th 2011 at 5:06:10 PM

Here's a Negima fanfic-related request: Help me come up with an epithet or two that are better than "Beloved/Darling Prince of Ala Alba" at describing Negi's overall relationship and importance to Ala Alba, both intimately and objectively.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

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