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Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#64526: Sep 15th 2013 at 10:26:24 AM

Asuna!? Of all the girls in 3A, you want to pair Naruto with Asuna!?

Oh, dear. This isn't going very well, is it.

Well, execution trumps premise.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#64527: Sep 15th 2013 at 10:39:45 AM

The Bijuu are very powerful, and logically, so are perfect Jinchuuriki. I'd say that Naruto could hold his own against Evangeline, but would inevitably lose because, well, if you can figure out a way to beat Eva in a straight up fight (can draw mana from the air, regenerate, has a shitton of stamina, reacts fast enough to keep up with Perma-Lightning-Form-Negi and has no recharge time when using Magia Erebea which means she can basically keep a continuous stream of attacks up) then you can come here and tell me, I'll be listening.

Naruto would lose against Negi with Deathbattle Rules, if only due to the massive speed difference. Naruto's quite fast, but Negi is insanely fast. Without Deathbattle rules... well, Naruto would need to be smart enough to finish the fight before Negi gets serious and uses Raiten Taisou. The moment Lightning Form comes into play, the fight's pretty much over. Naruto is not smart enough to counter Raiten Taisou the same way Rakan did. And even if he did, Raiten Sousou makes up for that weakness anyway. If we're gonna get them prior to their endgame levels, then we'll delevel both of them.

And...

I'd like to see a fic that is fair and doesn't put Endgame!Naruto with Starter!Negi, where of course Naruto will be more powerful than Negi and all that jazz. I'd like to see a fic where Naruto is his Starting!Self too.

But these crossovers will never do that. Because when you put Negi and Naruto on the same starting line, Negi will outshine Naruto. Thing is, Negi is basically The Ace as a protagonist, while Naruto is pretty much an arrogant brat. This is funny because Negi behaves like what is essentially a mini-adult with occasional bouts of childishness and Naruto behaves like a little kid with the very rare bout of maturity. Despite the fact that Nekane tried to raise Negi as a normal magical kid the best she could and Naruto was supposed to be raised like the child soldier he is supposed to be in canon. Something went wrong here.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Archivist10 Oh for God's sake! Since: Jan, 2013
Oh for God's sake!
#64528: Sep 15th 2013 at 10:54:38 AM

I personally feel like Naruto is stronger, or is going to be stronger than Negi by the end of the manga.

Lets end this conversation now, I didn't come to this forum to argue about whose the beter fighter.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#64529: Sep 15th 2013 at 11:22:54 AM

Stronger? Sure. Naruto's probably much stronger than Negi.

The problem is that Negi is just too fast. Thing is, Negi isn't actually Monster Tier in terms of power in Negima. The reason he made it to the Monster Tier is because his intellect allowed him to create a spell that made him fast enough to make up for being fragile as glass (Jack Rakan almost killed him with ONE punch).

Believe me, it's not fanboyism I'm talking from here. It's just the facts. Speed is an extremelly underrated stat. Just ask that guy that built a character in some Tabletop RPG that got like a hundred or so turns per round, how overpowered a high speed stat is.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Archivist10 Oh for God's sake! Since: Jan, 2013
Oh for God's sake!
#64530: Sep 15th 2013 at 11:27:55 AM

But Naruto is fast too, it just never specifies how fast, Kyubi mode seem to make his Flash Step more like instant teleportation. Plus his sensing abilities in Kyubi mode and sage mode would give him some edge. And I doubt an immortal can shrug of a rasenshuriken very easily, that would definitely incapasatate them for quite some time.

And Naruto's unorthodox fighting style could throw Negi off.

edited 15th Sep '13 11:28:28 AM by Archivist10

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#64531: Sep 15th 2013 at 11:29:43 AM

Speed is an extremelly underrated stat.

This. With a high enough speed, no one can ever hurt you and you can hurt them as much as you want. It wouldn't matter if Naruto can kill Negi with a single blow because he'll never. Land. A punch.

And it doesn't matter if all Negi can do is effectively scratch damage, because he can get all a thousand cuts in in seconds.

EDIT:[up]But there's no evidence that Naruto is anyhere near as fast as Negi. We KNOW how fast Negi is while Naruto has never done anything that requires anything LIKE that speed.

edited 15th Sep '13 11:31:18 AM by Sereg

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#64532: Sep 15th 2013 at 11:34:06 AM

For the record, the Negi that we're talking about is the 10-year-old who we last see in Chapter 353. We have no idea if he had to go through even more Training from Hell to become a true Monster Tier fighter in order to fight on the same level as the Lifemaker-in-Nagi's-body (as opposed to the not-real clone/projection that we see at the end of the Gravekeeper's Palace showdown).

edited 15th Sep '13 11:34:15 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Archivist10 Oh for God's sake! Since: Jan, 2013
Oh for God's sake!
#64533: Sep 15th 2013 at 11:37:45 AM

Naruto is young too you know.

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#64534: Sep 15th 2013 at 11:43:49 AM

It is true that Naruto is massively hypersonic. But how massively? Hypersonic is just mach 5. Negi is mach 6600.

Archivist10 Oh for God's sake! Since: Jan, 2013
Oh for God's sake!
#64535: Sep 15th 2013 at 11:47:37 AM

Naruto I think can match Negis speed, he outrun the Raikage didn't he? And I know that his speed was never specified.

Plus the reason I ship Naruto and Asuna is because I see them as Birds of a Feather

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#64536: Sep 15th 2013 at 11:47:52 AM

[up]Tell me this... Do you think Naruto can dodge Kirin after Sasuke uses it?

Do you think Naruto can outrun a lightning bolt?

Asuna and Naruto, birds of a feather? I'm not gonna lie. I don't see it. I could see them being friends once Naruto pulls his head out of his ass and becomes Ninja Jesus, though.

edited 15th Sep '13 11:49:31 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Archivist10 Oh for God's sake! Since: Jan, 2013
Oh for God's sake!
#64537: Sep 15th 2013 at 11:50:35 AM

Probably, Kyubi mode allows him to move the same way his father did, as in instant teleportation, plus like I said before his sensing abilities allow him, even if just barely perceive attacks before they hit, combine this with his speed and I think that yes,he can

[up]Both characters are similar in many ways, from what I see

edited 15th Sep '13 11:51:41 AM by Archivist10

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#64538: Sep 15th 2013 at 11:53:40 AM

Wow! Checking on Negi's stats, I saw that Outskirts Battledome had already claimed he'd beat Kumagawa! It's really hilliarious how much they underestimate Medaka Box there. Kumagawa is a planet eraser (not buster, eraser) with infinite speed. Of course, he'd still lose, because that's what he does, but still.

EDIT:[up]When is that ever claimed to be teleportation and not just faster than the eye movement (which is so slow, real world Olympians can sometimes achieve it).

edited 15th Sep '13 11:56:26 AM by Sereg

Archivist10 Oh for God's sake! Since: Jan, 2013
Oh for God's sake!
#64539: Sep 15th 2013 at 11:59:25 AM

It's shown that like the yellow flash he could outrun the Raikage.

Edit: the fact that some characters compare I think is meant to make it obvious.

edited 15th Sep '13 12:00:03 PM by Archivist10

EvaUnit01 Fandom Heretic Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Fandom Heretic
#64540: Sep 15th 2013 at 12:00:33 PM

EDIT:[up]When is that ever claimed to be teleportation and not just faster than the eye movement (which is so slow, real world Olympians can sometimes achieve it).
Are you shitting me? <Jaw Drop>

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#64541: Sep 15th 2013 at 12:03:32 PM

Actually, we know how the Hiraishin works, and no amount of speed is equal to it. Minato and Tobirama are still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay faster than Naruto. So much so that Naruto needs to hitch a ride with Tobirama to hit Juubito. Also, where Minato and Tobirama can dodge the branches coming for them, Naruto cannot.

Hiraishin, both the Second and the Fourth's versions, are still way faster than Naruto is. 'Cause Hiraishin is teleportation and thus instant.

Let me put it this way.

How fast do you think Naruto moves, in kilometers per hour?

[up]For obvious reasons, you can't actually run faster than the eye can see. Bruce Lee could, however, punch you faster than you could see, and there are others who can replicate some of his feats, as well as people who make similar feats.

edited 15th Sep '13 12:07:08 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Archivist10 Oh for God's sake! Since: Jan, 2013
Oh for God's sake!
#64542: Sep 15th 2013 at 12:07:44 PM

I'm terrible at measurements I can't even tell what a meter is.

Plus it isn't so much that they're faster, it's how their jutsu work, it takes a person to a certain place instantly to where the seal is, while Naruto is more like he needs to have the target in sight. And thus it's less practical than the other for sneak attacks on a Physical God. Naruto is just as fast but uses it as a Flash Step.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#64543: Sep 15th 2013 at 12:14:35 PM

Gimme an estimation.

Naruto is not using a jutsu. He's just running from place to place. Even accounting for this, Tobirama and Minato are still faster than he is (they react faster and move out of the way faster than Naruto can).

edited 15th Sep '13 12:15:17 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#64544: Sep 15th 2013 at 12:18:34 PM

The speed of the eye depends on the conditions. In really poor conditions, yes, it's slower than the world's fastest humans.

I'm terrible at measurements I can't even tell what a meter is.

Then you're not going to have a clue how ludicrously fast Negi is. Dodging a lightning bolt is way easier than outrunning one.

WorldTurtle Since: Jan, 2011
#64545: Sep 15th 2013 at 12:19:10 PM

Just asking where has Negi's exact speed been confirmed again? I've had trouble keeping track of all this information since the series ended. I'll also note Naruto recently moved so fast Kakashi thought he was looking at the Yondaime, meaning Naruto looked like he teleported, which should be pretty damn fast (Ninja'd here). Naruto then knocked away five attacks that proceeded to level the surrounding mountains (the attacks were from the Bijuu). Also I'm going to be frank after I saw that, the Bijuu are very likely more powerful then guys like Evangeline and Rakan once they get going at least in terms of raw power. If just one Bijuu can get a point blank shot off, they win. Not sure how Eva's healing would deal with that unless her healing is faster then the blast's destructive power.

Aside from believing the Bijuu outclass everyone in terms of raw destructive power (they have recently earned the right to be called natural disasters and walking nukes). I don't know really know "who" to say is stronger yet till we see Naruto end and could do a proper End of Series Negi vs. End of Series Naruto.

For the record I vote End of Part 1 Naruto vs. Pre MM Arc Negi as close to to a fair fight as we can get at the moment (excluding Kyuubi interference).

edited 15th Sep '13 12:24:30 PM by WorldTurtle

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#64546: Sep 15th 2013 at 12:21:11 PM

I can see Asuna and Naruto as good bash friends and in a sister-brother like relationship, but I don't think they have romantical chemistry. Truth be told, I only tend to ship Asuna with older guys (or at least guys older than the age she appears to be) and other girls (mostly ones who can play the Tomboy and Girly Girl tango with her).

URAE Naruto is quite older than Negi, and has a lot of experience on him, but since he'll stay at the sidelines for the whole story, it's not a factor anyway. However, URAE Ranma is a freaking monster compared to Negi and Ala Alba at this point. Between his adaptability and learning curve coupled with how he's twice the age he was in the manga now, URAE Ranma should be like Top Tier Ala Rubra level now (he barely trained URAE Haruna, and yet she's also freakishly strong and competent when she wants to actually move her ass and fight). But again, this isn't his story and he lives far from Mahora, so I don't see him being a factor out of maybe showing up for the Mahorafest Tournament and maybe towards the end of the Ostia battle.

calmandinsane Keep Calm... and Insane from The End Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Keep Calm... and Insane
#64547: Sep 15th 2013 at 12:26:39 PM

[up][up]I'm not sure you understand how powerful Jack Rakan and Evangeline are... I'm fairly certain that Jack Rakan was referred to as a walking apocalypse, and Evangeline has been burned at the steak before. To me that sounds like she can heal from being turned into ashes, with that interpretation being punched(or beamed or whatever the Bijuu do) into a fine red mist doesn't slow you down much.

edited 15th Sep '13 12:28:20 PM by calmandinsane

Liable to disappear at any moment.
WorldTurtle Since: Jan, 2011
#64548: Sep 15th 2013 at 12:31:57 PM

And I just want to be sure you guys aren't playing favorites for the Negima cast the same way the Narutards do for Naruto okay? The Bijuu were going into DBZ Namek Power Levels. I don't recall either Raken or Evangeline doing anything like that in terms of raw destructive power. Maybe I need to refresh my memory, but off the top of my head nothing really comes to mind.

Rules prevent me from linking here but Naruto Chapter 571 Page 3. Also 572 Page 1-2.

edited 15th Sep '13 12:39:45 PM by WorldTurtle

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#64549: Sep 15th 2013 at 12:34:27 PM

An attack that Rakan was intending to be weak enough for Pre-MM Negi's use obliterated a mountain. This is him holding back immensely.

The Combo of the Rakan Impact and the Thousand Thunderbolts exploding at the same time obliterated a magical barrier that could take bombardment-class magical blasts without the least bit of wavering.

Negi's Kokkuryu Raigou hit Dynamis with a lightning bolt the size of the Gravekeeper's palace, which is, if I need to remind you, freaking humongous.

Just because the Negima characters don't do a lot of real estate destruction doesn't mean their attacks aren't ridiculously powerful. But yes, the Bijuu are stronger than them in terms of raw power. Which doesn't do much when they're trying to hit a target that to them, is the size of an ant.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#64550: Sep 15th 2013 at 12:35:23 PM

Truth be told, I think it was a bad idea to bring DBZ power levels into a series about ninja, stealthy assassins who operate discreetly and kill swiftly. Those broken power levels are better suited for series where the basic premise is based on open confrontations. Heck, even Kaede is kinda stretching it already, although she gets by mostly okay IMHO.


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