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If I said that didn't make it satisfactory, and now you say the same thing, why did you object to my initial statement in the first place?
And isn't every interpretation of the outcome personal in some degree or another, anyway?
Like hell! I still have fifteen hundreds barrels of bile not used yet! Like I'm going let them go to waste! YEE-HAAWWWW!
edited 19th Apr '12 11:58:54 AM by NapoleonDeCheese
My personal take on the ending (and the Sports Festival, too) is that it's loosely based on what Akamatsu really wanted to end the manga with, but he hadn't had enough time to flesh out its details properly and/or he sincerely believed that he would be betraying his own fans if he actually wrote a good ending that would increase Kodansha's profit margin, since it was seeking to steal Negima's copyright from him (which, as I understand, he wasn't 100% guaranteed to eventually secure at the time) and thus be in a perfect position to make a Cash-Cow Franchise out of it, thus risking turning it into a Franchise Zombie (a la Electronic Arts and Command And Conquer).
edited 19th Apr '12 11:59:32 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.![]()
I didn't say you imply it, but since you didn't make it clear either, any newcomer, like EVA, might have taken it some other way.
And since all points up to that point led that character with the bad future to another direction slow but surely (even in the Bad Future for the series as a whole), I still feel justified at being unhappy with the actual ending taking her the whole opposite way with no explanation.
edited 19th Apr '12 12:02:43 PM by NapoleonDeCheese
So what? Does that mean I have to speak clearly in everything I say? Am I talking to a crowd or to some folks I chat with regularly about writing? Why do I have to fully express what I'm trying to say when this is a casual environment where I'm only here to have some fun rather than lobby my ideas at people to change their opinions on something?
To which I never said you can't feel unhappy with a turnout, but you presented your issue with Chisame's end to be a OBJECTIVELY bad thing when it's clearly not since you placed the issue among more objective issues like Natsumi's arc and Hakase and Godel's relationship (which I think were more jokes than anything, but I'm not going to argue it).
edited 19th Apr '12 12:04:49 PM by NoLimit
Because if I had done the same thing you'd be on my case then.
I said "I' won't accept that ending even at gunpoint". If you like it, more power to you. So it's not like I'm imposing my likings or dislkings on you, but it still won't stop me from voicing them, much like in your own case.
edited 19th Apr '12 12:06:03 PM by NapoleonDeCheese
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If that is what happened, then the fans owe Akamatsu-sensei a great debt.
Also it re-affirms the theory that he's not 'done' with Negima
You know you want to add loveAnd there are things that don't make sense in it, and even if explained would feel like a gigantic asspull (such as Asuna somehow knowing how to destroy the Lifemaker without killing Nagi along with it. What kind of retarded idiot programmes his golems with the ability to do that!?).
For the record, objectively, Chisame's ending is bad, as it contradicts her character development.
edited 19th Apr '12 12:06:21 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari![]()
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No, I've long since said that the ending was bad. Why do you continue saying that I'd say something that I didn't? Can you predict what I'm going to say?
I already presented my interpretation on it, which I guess no one bothered reading.
Can we drop it now? I said I'm sick of talking about it when we're supposed to be writing.
edited 19th Apr '12 12:07:21 PM by NoLimit
In any case, the ending is crap and we are not forced to follow it. End of discussion.
Your explanation of it depends entirely on something that was not shown on screen or even alluded to in her epilogue. Therefore, we cannot assume that there was a plausible reason for it.
If it'd said "A traumatic event caused her to become a recluse", then fine, but it didn't.
edited 19th Apr '12 12:09:00 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari![]()
At this point I'm even starting to lose track of why we're supposed to be fighting, to be honest.
Also, the ending's shadow will never go away. Much like everyone will comment on the quality of prior arcs when they're brought in, this one's flaws will keep coming back whenever it's mentioned. Rather than trying to sweep the sensitive issue under the rug, we must learn to live with the fact it's there, and analyzing its flaws will hopefully help us from ever falling into similar pitfalls.
edited 19th Apr '12 12:10:56 PM by NapoleonDeCheese
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What do you mean? I did cite examples of it being on-panel. Chisame and Makie weren't affected by Poyo's artifact because they were happy with their lives, but she immediately rejects it. That raised plausible reasoning that she objects to her true happiness because she doesn't want to believe that's what she wants, and therefore recluses herself because her mind tells her not to while her hearts wants it.
It's a fair assessment as any.
edited 19th Apr '12 12:12:37 PM by NoLimit
By the way Anemoi. You're working on a Pony Computer RPG, right? Well, I've been working on a Pony Tabletop RPG. It's still a little bare bones, but the bascs are there. Want to see?
EDIT: Seriously, let's not have a huge fight about something like this especially when our opinions are so similar anyway. Let's talk about something more pleasant.
edited 19th Apr '12 12:15:04 PM by Sereg
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Considering even in the "bad" and most likely more traumatic future she seemed to become an elegantly dressed active close collaborator of Negi, thinking she'll go unkempt bitter recluse in a much better and happier future doesn't make a lot of sense.
edited 19th Apr '12 12:15:18 PM by NapoleonDeCheese
I also mentioned in my analysis that she also admitted during the Magical World arc that she was substituting for Asuna. Once Asuna returned, she could have thought she didn't really have to do it for her anymore. In the alternate future where Asuna was gone, Chisame would have come back to served her role. But in the future presented in the epilogue, Asuna WAS there, so Chisame had no purpose (according to herself) anymore.
Which she is dead wrong about, but that's the tragic aspect of it. And I theorized that it makes her a deconstruction of a tsundere: A person unwilling to admit their feelings.
But, again, it's all theory, but I think it's a fair one. I'm not saying that I'm correct, but it is how I believe it went down.
EDIT: Also, I'm slightly bemused that I have to slap that disclaimer there to say that it's all interpretation rather than objective fact out of fear that I'm not being fair about it.
edited 19th Apr '12 12:18:49 PM by NoLimit
@Limit
Her outwardly going "Oh this isn't true! I won't accept this!" doesn't mean that she's an idiot who would choose to become a recluse simply because she refuses to admit she actually likes the morons. After all, by the time of the MM arc, she was going along with everything pretty much without a complaint.
And seriously, becoming a recluse only because she can't be Negi's Incestuous But Cool Older Sister figure?
Ya kidding me?
edited 19th Apr '12 12:20:12 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariGuys, how about you take this admittedly heated debate to the main thread? I don't want to see Magey distancing himself from this one just like he got turned off the main thread.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.![]()
That's because she was still in the magical world arc and didn't realize it as such. It's the subtlety of her character that makes her so fascinating to me as I don't need her to say what she feels, just that I'm presented enough information about her to figure why she went down that route. Chisame is a brilliant character.
Just because the characters in Negima are genre-savvy doesn't except them from human error. That just makes them even better characters because they recognize the tropes, but they are just so wonderful characters that they make mistakes in life too.
edited 19th Apr '12 12:23:21 PM by NoLimit
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Except because she was already defrosting and softening on that regard way back before Asuna was kidnapped. See her scenes right before the trip to Wales, when Asuna still was Negi's right hand woman. Her statements of being Asuna's replacement seemed more like an excuse to make Negi let her tag along, but she never seemed particularly obsessed or worried about Asuna's shadow.
Chisame's overall development was moving her away from harmful self-denial, not deeper into it, Asuna or not. Slow, but surely. And Negi wasn't even the whole of it (Chachamaru and Rakan played parts on it, and even the group as a whole).
edited 19th Apr '12 12:22:49 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

I only said that I consider the epilogue to be what was supposed to happen. I never said it was satisfactory, did I?
Also, that last one is more personal than anything.