Young Justice

Exactly.

Should have let Bedlam take a swing at him first.

Then it's self defence.

Technically it’s executing.

It'd only be execution if he was found guilty by the courts and sentenced to death. And even then, Brion wasn't an officer of the law sanctioned to execute people.

Heck, even Judge Dredd pastes the veneer of legality over it by creating a system where officers of the law are able to pronounce a verdict, decide on a sentence, and carry it out themselves. And even in that series Judges still have to follow the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard and find actual evidence before they execute people.

Edited by M84 on Sep 10th 2019 at 1:27:57 AM

Which brings us to the main reason why Brion was in the wrong for killing Bedlam; he does not have the authority to pass off such judgement. If we get down to it, superheroes are basically a larger than life version of neighborhood watch (or deputies to local sherifs). They can make a citizen arrest on the criminal they bust but they do not have the right to basically kill them after they have been attain. Hell this goes the same for a lot of official law enforcements with the power to carry out the law.

Brion is NOT the law enforcement of Markovia. Hell he’s not even the ruler of Markovia to makes such call as not only was he exiled from his country but also not the next in line to rule since his brother was born minutes before him. Brion does not have the right to call out judgement like that.

Which eventually led to him betraying EVERYBODY by killing Bedlam, taking the crown from his own older brother who has been trying to help him this whole time and abadoning the heroes and all of their teaching.

And I know this is late and all, but yeah I agree with the poster that Brion’s whole character arc does resembles Anakin’s in the prequels (minus all the cringey acting and script reads). Doesn’t help that Brion is also made of lava.

. . . Oh God. Forth season might be an adaption of Armageddon 2001, but with Brion as Monarch. Well I have trust in the writers to make that story arc work. They after all manage to subvert the Judas Contract story line somehow.

It was a murder, but kinda justified as Bedlam had just committed a coup on top of his crimes, and had clearly managed to escape prison and control the country easily. Just the fact he had that much of the military in his pocket made him too much of a threat.

But again, Brion did hold off the first time. And then psychic influence, murder, took on his uncle's coup. Which... I'm surprised nobody on the team thought "Oh hey this is a really sudden 180, are we sure everything's normal?"

Not a total 180, tbf. The psychic influence only draws out the worst impulses that are already there. Part of Brion already wanted to kill his uncle for all the shit he did and deep down he had always coveted the throne and resented Gregor.

And regardless of the reasons for it, it wasn't Brion's call to make.

Edited by M84 on Sep 10th 2019 at 2:43:12 AM

I mean, Brion's impulse control and anger issues had been a running theme, so I don't find that particularly surprising. It just seemed like he reached a breaking point.

Even without mental interference, I'd say Brion's actions were understandable but that doesn't make them correct, either from a moral or practical standpoint. Both of those are debatable either way.

Plus with how quick he is to justify himself afterwards makes it less likely to suspect outside influence.

It'd be a different story if they suspected something, knew a lot of what was going on, yet chose to keep their mouths shut and do nothing before it happens. That'd make them assholes. I promised myself I wouldn't still be mad about this happening in a game.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Sep 9th 2019 at 11:46:34 AM

Brion's a lot like Conner was at first — something the characters themselves note. The difference is that while Conner's experiences with the Team helped him grow past his issues and become a well-adjusted hero, Brion's experiences with a team that kept secrets from him and lied to him repeatedly made his issues worse, culminating in murder and usurpation (with a bit of a psychic nudge too).

Edited by M84 on Sep 10th 2019 at 2:48:00 AM

I wonder if the Roy Harper of this universe is a descendant of Vandal Savage like in the comics. If so, it would make what the Light did to him even more horrifying.

What is the difference between kill and murder? Since my last post's been answered, I feel bad for saying what I've said about what did Brion do to his uncle.

Possibly, but it's actually less likely in this verse. Remember that Vandal is the progenitor of the metagene in this verse. Meaning every metahuman is a distant descendant of his. Roy is not a metahuman. It's still possible he's one of Vandal's descendants, but still.

Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. There are circumstances where killing is not murder, but what Brion did was murder.

Edited by M84 on Sep 10th 2019 at 8:11:48 PM

Exactly. If Brion had killed in self-defence or to save someone else, then it would be justified. Instead he did it while he was captured and helpless. And that's what makes it murder.

I've actually been wondering about that for a while. Isn't it possible his unusual aim and ability to fire arrows with such speed and precision aren't metahuman abilities?

In the comics it wasn't. He was just that good. Nothing in this series indicates that it's any different here.

Comics!Roy was even more ridiculous, being basically a DC version of Bullseye — able to weaponize damn near anything and had perfect aim.

Edited by M84 on Sep 10th 2019 at 8:37:41 PM

I understand his Arsenal phase made him some kind of Multi-Melee Master but can you give any examples of him doing stuff like what Bullseye could do?

It's mostly the ridiculous aim. He pretty much never missed.

Didn't his uncle escape the first time they thought he was contained in the same episode before they had to capture him a second time leading up to the murder.

Not sure there is much proof in regards that country planning to execute him considering all this time he was in prison which the light had easy access to.

Yeah. If there's one aspect of Brion's actions you can kinda understand, it's the idea that he'd just break out again even if they took him in normally.

Even after being exposed by his older brother, Bedlam still got a "Get Out of Jail Free" Card via the light.

Now, that doesn't make what Brion did right; others have pointed out that they could have used Delamb to learn more about the Light, maybe even expose them further (though there's no guarantee he had any useful information, or that the Light didn't have a way to murder him most foul even if did know anything and was willing to talk).

Speaking of the “Get Out of Jail Free” Card, I’m pretty sure Bedlam only has one from the Light as they intended on just using him as a sacrificial lamb rather than a recurring member.

Especially considering the reveal with Bad Sammaritan secretly joining the Light’s ranks while at the same time being advisor of the Markovian Royal Family. At that point Bedlam is of no real use to them. I mean, what’s more useful? A Scar who fucking failed at seizing power because one of the heirs was smart enough to see through his deception, or a Jafar who successfully obtain control in the kingdom by remaining behind the scenes? . . . Yeah I like the live action remake of Aladdin more than The Lion King.

Basically, my point is, even if Bedlam goes back to jail chances are he won’t be escaping anytime soon after his coup. Not only will secrutity will be tighten for a war criminal like him but also the Light won’t give a fuck about him after that misson as they were expecting him to die anyway from Terra’s hand (he is used as incentive for Terra in killing Beast Boy).

And tbf, his escape wasn't exactly easy. It took a friggin' Boom Tube to get him out of that prison.

Boom Tubes are beginning to seem like they're a dime a dozen.

And it's not like Brion knows that the Light isn't likely to spring him out again. What prompted him to kill Bedlam was the fact that he literally just broke out of his constraints before being captured again.

It was more Bedlam's defiant taunt and the psychic nudging that prompted Brion to do what he did. "As long as I draw breath"...there's a reason Brion specifically killed him by pouring lava into Bedlam's throat.

The Light having access to Boom Tubes isn't such a shock, considering their alliance with Darkseid. At least the heroes have access to them now too thanks to Violet and Victor.

Edited by M84 on Sep 11th 2019 at 4:15:04 PM

It should also be noted that not only can Bedlam escape, he had enough support after being in jail for months to enact the coup. He did so with the support of the military. Even without the Light, who's to say he couldn't get military support to spring him again?

Brion killing Bedlam was understandable, and i could see him do that with a psychic nudge. And he had the support of his people. But suddenly wanting to be king? I got zero impression he cared for the throne or political power, and it didn't seem like there were any hints of it before he suddenly was all gung-ho for being king.

Has anyone said it wasn't understandable? I don't understand why people keep repeating that as if it's in question.

In regards to the king thing, there wasn't any particular focus on it, but it also didn't surprise me. The very first scene with him has a reporter basically rubbing it in his face he wasn't getting the throne because his brother was born 16 minutes earlier than him. That's not the kind of thing that doesn't come up again in some way.

Edited by LSBK on Sep 11th 2019 at 3:55:20 AM