It was hilarious how in Sailor Moon, after Usagi grew powerful enough to defeat the season's Big Bad, then the first goofy-ass Monster of the Week of the next season would kick her around like a ragdoll until she hit her season's power update and costume change.
I mean, just the idea of the Amazon Trio walking into Queen Beryl's fortress and pwning everyone by simply sending a few ridiculous monsters around... just cracks me up.
Oh GOD, this. It happens in Pretty Cure, too...within the same season! Splash Star was particularly egregious.
To me Endless Eight is more of a They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot Wall Banger then a desire for them not to do it.
To me the most effective way to animate Endless Eight would have been the following:
1: The day unfolds like a normal slice of life episode. No clues that anything weird really happened.
This is how the first episode is.
2: The day unfolds like a normal slice of life... wait, we've seen this before, did they put up a re-run? On no! We've entered an endless recursion of time? Well, Kyon will figure a way out... Kyon failed us.
This is how the second episode played out- it was still rather shocking and dramatic at this point.
3: The day unfolds... okay, okay, endless recursion, got it, yes. Kyon will figure it out this time. Nooo!!!! Kyon you idiot!!!!
This is mostly how the third episode played out, still shocking, but now it's rather worrisome- they can't be planning to do this again can they?
4: The day unfold like a normal slice of life... as seen by weird artsy film buffs. This is the episode that you give to your animator and director that likes to do the weird camera angle stuff. The surreal nature of the direction will match the surreal feeling of the viewer watching the exact same thing again for the third time (first episode was a slightly different plot remember). Things are getting weird here... come on Kyon, pull us out of this nightmare. Kyon... I hate you.
The fourth episode was not like this, they did have one episode that was a little like this but it need to be pumped up more and placed in the fourth episode spot. Instead of letting the anger caused by the third episode stabilize into numbness you got to throw the fans off. Leak a rumor that the next episode will be "different."
5: The Yuki Nagato episode: The day unfolds like usual.. yeah yeah, seen it before, why am I watching this again? Wait... Kyon just did something different. He's been noticing that Nagato seems depressed, but this time he decided to give her ride home on his bike after the pool. Okay... things are mainly the same, yes, yes, endless recursion of time, Itsuki gay-vibes, "I ruve you". Wait... Yes! Kyon decides he ought to actually talk to Nagato and come up with a plan. Get us out of this mess Nagato! Okay... there's some nice Ship Tease for the Nagato fans... Nagato gives us the typically confusing and non-helpful advice, but Kyon will figure it out. Nagato always saves the day after all—— well crap. Here we go again. Damn you Kyon! Man up for once!
Nagato fans are happy because they got some nice screen caps. Fans of the show start to become less focused on their rage (which is still there) and a bit interested in what happened differently and wondering what will happen next.
6: The Mikuru Asahina episode: The day unfolds, yada yada, okay endless recursion of time. Huh. Kyon thinks that he should ask Mikuru what to do? Well... yeah okay Kyon, I guess you got a point that she is a time traveler and so on... but she's not really that competent you know. Kyon... you just want an excuse to hang out with her don't you? Sigh... okay, well—- did Mikuru just say something smart or something stupid? I'm not sure because she used an analogy that sort of makes sense, but really thinking about it makes my head hurt. Okay, I think Nagato's vague hint was more useful. And cue the obligatory Fanservice scene. Hey! Tsuruya just had a cameo! Ah huh... did Tsuruya just make a pass at Kyon? Haha, it was just a joke. ... ... Kyon you lucky lucky bastard. Oh- there we go, the obligatory "Haruhi is a jealous Tsundere when you are attracted to Mikuru" scene. Great Kyon. Now she's going to destroy the universe. As if this endless recursion of time wasn't bad enough. Okay Kyon, good job there smooth talking the living Cthulhu, but you still left us in this endless recursion mess. I hope next time around Haruhi makes you suffer good for this.
Fans are still ready to tear their hair out because we are still stuck on this time loop arc, but at least you are giving them something interesting to argue about.
7: The Haruhi episode: The day unfolds, yada yada, okay endless recursion of time. Whoa... wait a minute there. Kyon. Are you actually considering Itsuki's advice? Is Kyon actually going to start an official romance with Haruhi? Okay... it's the test of courage scene. Hey they really rushed through the first part of the episode but they're extending this bit. Haruhi and Kyon are paired up this time? Is this a significant change somehow? Okay Kyon... yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Saying "I love you" is a bit much, but putting an arm around the girl during the test of courage is a semi-natural event. That could be enough. Good thinking Kyon- now just do it. Come on Kyon, it's only a test of courage. Our hero is doing it once again! ... Oh ouch. That had to hurt. Yeah, I guess Haruhi is a Tsundere after all. Punching the guy you like when he puts his arm around you just makes total sense. Oh right Haruhi, you're "glad it wasn't Mikuru or Yuki" with Kyon for the test of courage because you are concerned about their virtue. And now Kyon is ruining it by babbling on about how she misunderstood him. Well that's about par for the course. I guess Haruhi bought it. Now she thinks Kyon is just a scaredy-cat so she has to hold his hand... and drag him along behind her so he can't see her blushing. Moe. Pure Tsundere Moe. Well surely that solved it. We get the final scene. It's finally over... Wait what? It was over right? What was that hint by the others that Kyon failed again. That makes no sense! He gave Haruhi the romantic "event" that she wanted. It's over, we move on right? Right?
The ending head fake that also provides plenty of Haruhi/Kyon goodness for the shippers.
8: "Kyon-kun, denwa!". No. It can't be. It was over. This is, this is just a head fake. It's really a different day but Haruhi is calling again to drag Kyon on a different adventu... Ahhhh!!!!!!!! Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! Why? Why? It was over. Kyon did it and romanced Haruhi a little. It should be over! Sigh... okay... endless recursion of time, yada yada. It's just like the 2nd episode this time around... final scene... woah. Music just got awesome. Kyon is going to man up and— invite everyone over to help him do his homework? Huh? Wait... that worked?!? All Kyon had to do the whole time was just do his homework? WTH!!!! Gah!!! I just got trolled!!!!
Fans engage in endless debate about Endless eight- until eventually someone points out the Fridge Brilliance maybe Kyon is the real reality bender?
Now wouldn't that be a better way to handle Endless Eight?
I mean... if you are going to do it. Just do it, but do it right.
edited 26th Oct '10 8:54:21 PM by Sackett
Can we get Sackett on the staff of Kyo Ani? Is it too late now?
...Aaaaaand back on topic.
I generally dislike anything that... well... I'm having trouble thinking of anime-specific Wallbangers. Maybe the prevalence of I Want My Beloved to Be Happy and Unlucky Childhood Friend.
edited 26th Oct '10 8:54:52 PM by RedSavant
It's been fun.Hmm... Wallbangers?
Well, not much really makes me rage, but some of Law of Ueki Plus, specifically around the end bothers me a bit. The guy coming back to life kind of cheapened his death. (Can't remember his name. :/) And Ueki skipping the whole 'hundred years' thing also bothered me a bit.
ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ
Silly Over Master, we have the internet for that.
edited 26th Oct '10 9:14:39 PM by KSPAM
I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial
No, that would be for seeing Haruhi in various states of undress, not swimsuits.
As for wallbangery anime plot devises? Rape Is Love, bar none. DAMMIT, YAOI, WHY MUST YOU MAKE IT SO DIFFICULT TO LIKE YOU?
Air Master. I dropped it at the beach episode. Makie puts on a helmet with an obvious bomb attached to it.
- Combat Commentator or whatever the trope is when a character explains the attack they just used that's supposed to own their opponent. I understand that the audience needs exposition, but I find this incredibly lazy.
- Power Levels. In general, this does nothing but create other problems such as Can't Catch Up and So Last Season. It's a fuzzy feeling, knowing that a hero succeeds in Defeating the Undefeatable based solely on his/her own merits, but this tends to get pushed to astronomically ridiculous levels.
- Voodoo Sharking. AKA, trying to explain shit that doesn't need explaining in general. Manga/anime seems to have an obsession with providing the reader with an explanation for EVERYTHING. If a coincidence occurs, we get a half-assed explanation about how Xanatos planned it. If a couple is having sex in a hentai, we get another one explaining every single step of why THIS orgasm is stronger than the ones before it. It's not even really about Law of Conservation of Detail so much as it's allowing the audience SOME Suspension of Disbelief. If something far-fetched happens that isn't important enough to explain, for God's sake, let the audience speculate.
"She does when Keiichi is hallucinating, though. And it is from there most of her fame comes from. For all the readers/viewers know Rena was an excellent example of Yangire in the first chapter/four episodes. I guess you could argue she is a subversion, but she is still playing the trope.
You listed a bunch of bad examples, but that don't say much. This is not even the majority of examples.
Anyway, you are right, this is off-topic. Take that to the Trope Repair Shop if you want to continue this discussion. "
Well, I shouldn't clutter up this thread. So with this one I'll begone.
A valid point on Rena. Although applying tropes to a character based on what a hallucinating other character sees her as opposed to what she actually is opens a really interesting can of worms.
Secondly, that wasn't a list of bad examples chosen because they were bad examples. That was essentially every example in that section of that page that I felt remotely qualified to comment on. And almost all of them were not appropriate to the topic description. An evil or sociopathic character that's good at putting on a socially acceptable facade isn't a Yangire. Putting on a socially acceptable facade is part of the definition of a sociopath.
An openly evil character that someone finds "cute" isn't a Yangire.
A genuinely nice person that is hinted at as having a scary, dangerous side might be one if they actually acted on it.
I've actually come to think that it's a decent trope idea, but nobody seems to be able to come up with a good example.
And thirdly, the off-topic thing was based on where the thread is going rather than my own post. People are just naming tropes they don't like rather than the specific instances that earned their ire.
Anyhow, see you.
edited 27th Oct '10 7:07:06 AM by GoriceXII
If you see a legit problem, take it to the Trope Repair Shop. That's what it's there for, after all.
What's precedent ever done for us?To all the people raging at Endless Eight- Naruto. 85 episodes of filler. Non-stop. The longest plotline lasted 6 episodes and none of it was taken from or relevant to the manga... there's probably a few Naruto fans who would happily enter an endless recursion of time to never go through that again. Thank goodness it's improved in Shippuden.
At least it was somewhat different filler.
Besides, Naruto sucked to begin with.
edited 27th Oct '10 2:11:50 PM by snowbull
IJBM lives on here! Sign up!Can it be considered trolling if you're right :P
Anyways, I find the stupidity of the girls in School Days to be huge wallbangers. Makoto constantly proves that he's a giant, sex crazed douche who couldn't care less about their feelings, and yet just about every girl in his class sleeps with him, knowing full well that he's cheating on someone.
Thank god the manga made him much more likeable.
First, Sackett, that was.....oh my, that was just beautiful. I don't think I need to say more than that.
Anyway, my big Wall Banger regards Mahou Sensei Negima, and the issue with Time Travel in the Festival Arc. For those who don't know, a major part of the Festival Arc was the fact that Negi couldn't get help from the Mahora staff because the problem involved Time Travel, and according to the staff, time travel doesn't exist. Yeah, wizards don't believe that time travel exists. Granted, it's justified by the fact that magic isn't capable of manipulating time, but then that leads to my next question: Akamatsu, are you serious? Magic can't alter time? Really? You've added in enough Magitek to make the series borderline Sci Fi, and yet time travel is a limitation? Space can be screwed around with parallel dimensions and magic worlds yet time travel can't be? Time can be slowed to the point where minutes become days, and one person has a artifact that can cause time in a selected area to completely stop, yet going backwards and forwards is too much? Sorry for the ranting, but the Arbitrary Skepticism throughout the whole thing was making me RAGE. How is it that the wizards immediately call Negi insane for time travel ramblings, yet the "normals" can grasp it just fine? Has anyone in the magic community read a book in the last 100 years?
Granted, Akamatsu did use the Casseopoeia (sp?) in ways that JK Rowling never realized, so good for him. But if I see that lipstick-wearing asshole Gandolfini again, I will reach my arm through the computer screen and give him a SOUL PUNCH!!!
^^ Yes, yes it can. I actually like the series.
Nah, joking, I won't take it that seriously.
edited 27th Oct '10 2:12:53 PM by Demongodofchaos2
Watch Symphogear![]()
In a world "Magic A" Is "Magic A" this is comprehensible. For the mages, magic is not different at all from science. What are you are saying is that some scientist can't disbelieve in time travel since he already has done some complicated stuff like going to the Moon or divide an atom (not that, as far we know, Magic can't do either in Negima!).
You are saying If Jesus, Then Aliens. Which don't make sense at all.
Btw, this also explain how the girls who are born Muggle had a much more easier time accepting the cassiopedia then the ones who born mage. Note how both Setsuna and Camo were much more shocked then Asuna or Yue, this is because they know it is not supposed to be possible, while Asuna just lumped it as 'it is magic' the same way you did.
Captain Noah's death was so pointless from that goddamn explosion.
^^^ Yeah. Chao was a visionary; consider that she also built Chachamaru, the first ever robot (from the magic community; AI Love You is the same continuity, but they're not involved with the mages) to have a soul, something else that was considered impossible. She also has 100+ years of precedent and the extra capabilities of technology to bolster her relative to the mages.
It's been fun.Minor Negima Wallbanger from the first three volumes (pre-beard):
The Library Island fiasco. The Baka Rangers are all assembled and ready to study on the island, but as luck would have it, they are trapped and hunted by a huge golem.
Remember for a moment that the Baka Rangers include Kaede.
Kaede, who is later established as an uber-ninja. The girl who prior to becoming deeply entrenched in the world of mages, fought and held her own against a member of Ala Rubra. On her own self-training.
So why, might I ask, did she not use her skills down there?! It would've been easy for her to destroy the golem and escape with everyone to safety. EXPLAIN, KEN-CHAN! EXPLAIN!
edited 27th Oct '10 3:16:59 PM by KSPAM
I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serialIIRC, Kaede kinda wanted to keep her full ninja skillz a secret back then, although she made a miserable job at it (remember her 'I'm training here... but for what? That's a secret!' to Negi when he met her at the mountains).
It's also entirely possible Ken hadn't intended to make her that powerful back then. Heck, her preliminary sketches had her as a totally incompetent ninja.
edited 27th Oct '10 3:45:12 PM by OverMaster?!

So Last Season, this trope alone is usually what annoys people a lot in shonen manga. Say the hero who just after many episodes of trainign, just acquired the power to beat the big bad of the arc only to get curb stomped by the next season's mooks. You mean to tell me that that last powerup doesn't work on the next seasons bad guy? That is just annoying especially in Dragon Ball Z, Sailor Moon or any other shonen that uses this trope.