TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

It's a Gundam thread!

Go To

JudasZala Since: Jul, 2011
#22451: May 17th 2020 at 8:34:56 PM

I've read about the manga, Gundam SEED: Re. Is it a remake/reimagining of Gundam SEED, similar to Gundam: The Origin, Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz — Glory of the Losers, and Rebuild of Evangelion?

Once it's done, they could do Gundam SEED Destiny: Re (AKA Gundam SEED Destiny: REEEEEEEE to some people).

Edited by JudasZala on May 17th 2020 at 11:37:49 AM

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#22452: May 17th 2020 at 10:51:14 PM

The main question for a Destiny sequel would have to be, who's the antagonist? Destiny ends with Lacus running the PLANTs, Cagalli firmly in charge of Orb, and both Logos and Blue Cosmos effectively decapitated. Plus I'd strongly prefer to avoid shitting on the Earth Alliance again.

I'd be tempted to change gears considerably. The new protagonists are Earth Alliance pilots in a new task force dedicated to hunting down the remnants of Logos and Blue Cosmos. They're all recruits as part of an effort to make sure all members of the task force are thoroughly vetted and not harboring Blue Cosmos/Logos sympathies. They operate similarly to Faith did in Destiny — they're outside the normal chain of command, answerable only to the head of the task force (who would ideally be someone we already know and trust, but Destiny left us with something of a dearth of Earth Alliance characters actually worth a damn).

The story is about all three factions (the Earth Alliance, Orb, and ZAFT) throwing their weight behind this task force while simultaneously fending off their own internal political opponents (warhawks in ZAFT who want to hit the Earth Alliance while they're down, strict isolationists in Orb who want to leave the rest of the world to rot, and of course Blue Cosmos itself on the Earth Alliance front). They'd have to deal with some out-and-out rebellious units trying to overthrow OMNI and install Blue Cosmos as the official government, but also some people pretending to be loyal OMNI officers who were secretly helping Blue Cosmos.

The veteran cast could make appearances for things like joint exercises or something like "hey Blue Cosmos is attacking us, come help" but I wouldn't put them in the primary cast. Actually, maybe Murrue would work for the commander of the anti-Blue Cosmos task force? She was pretty firmly in Orb's camp in Destiny, but her being the boss would go a long way toward assuring the audience that his whole thing is legit. You'd probably have to introduce some sort of Durandal-esque new Earth Alliance politician backing the whole project, but like... actually good, not secretly planning to institute genetic totalitarianism.

Ultimately, you'd probably have to end on some major threat from all three factions combined. Like say, radical Coordinator supremacists have developed a Depopulation Bomb with plans to use it on Earth, but Blue Cosmos steals it from them and plans to use it on Earth and the PLANTs so that when the dust settles there's no one left but them. Also, Orb is involved... somehow. I dunno, this is all off the cuff.

Anyway, there you have it. I'd dearly love to see the Cosmic Era return to its roots of "guys the problem isn't your side or our side, the problem is assholes no matter what side they're on". And also stop stanning fucking ZAFT so hard even though they've killed way the fuck more people than Blue Cosmos ever did. No, I'm not bitter.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
JudasZala Since: Jul, 2011
#22453: May 18th 2020 at 1:15:02 AM

[up]I probably mentioned the ZAFT part already; Lacus's relationship with the Supreme Council could mirror those between Obama and the Tea Party Congress in the 2010s. Lacus would want to continue her father's legacy of uniting the Naturals and Coordinators together, but she would be ignored by the Council, who are ideologically split into those who support Patrick Zala, those who support Durandal, and those who support her father but not Lacus herself, as they felt that she lacks the political experience.

G2BattleConvoy The Hope, The Hero from Installation 07 Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
The Hope, The Hero
#22454: May 18th 2020 at 4:06:42 AM

Can I just say I kinda really dig G-Unit, even if most of the story I'll ever know about it is from Cross Rays?

"We all fail. We all make mistakes. That is what makes us human."
RangerJackWalker Since: Sep, 2010
#22455: May 18th 2020 at 6:55:21 PM

I would like a significant timeskip. Also, I don't want Shinn and Kira working together. Hell, I sometimes still wish the ending of Destiny would have committed to breaking down Shinn even more and not have him make peace with Kira.

JudasZala Since: Jul, 2011
#22456: May 18th 2020 at 11:55:04 PM

With drone warfare becoming a big deal last decade (and to this day, still is), I think that my proposed SEED sequel should introduce Mobile Dolls (from Gundam Wing), with the Mobile Doll’s OS developed by a new Coordinator character (probably a Coordinator who’s secretly working for the EA).

Other than Wing, which other shows (Gundam or non-Gundam) features Mobile Dolls or a similar concept?

amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#22457: May 19th 2020 at 6:31:49 AM

[up]Funny you say that. My idea for Destiny would've also included the drone angle, but in a different way: rather than using it for disposable mecha mooks, some completely insane elements in the EA decide to dust off the concept of the Destroy Gundam and cut out the human element entirely to preempt what ultimately brought down the first Destroy Gundam.

The result is the Apocalypse Gundam, 100% AI-controlled monster that not only has all of the Destroy's overwhelming firepower, but is incapable of hesitation, conscience, pity or mercy. It absolutely will not stop until every enemy in its theater of operations is eliminated. Oh, and if you try to go around it and defeat whoever is holding its leash, it has a backdoor subroutine to disable IFF recognition for indiscriminate kill-everything-that-moves "if I can't have this planet, nobody will" omnicide. And just in case someone, somehow, manages to defeat it, the thing was deliberately built to run on an antimatter power source rather than a nuclear reactor so that it would cook off in a multi-gigaton fireball if defeated and take half the continent with it.

It's not even a weapon of mass destruction anymore. It's an "if I don't win, nobody will" terror weapon of mutually assured destruction, something so horrific its mere existence makes its own side go "dude, what the FUCK" (in fact, the EA military starts deserting and defecting en masse because they signed up to protect their homeland, not to destroy the world) and makes everyone else a lot more interested in peace due to realizing how badly humanity is going to kill itself if it doesn't calm the fuck down. It's not instant peace forever miracle solution, but it gets things moving in the right direction for once.

Edited by amitakartok on May 19th 2020 at 4:02:38 PM

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#22458: May 19th 2020 at 7:17:12 AM

Having the Earth Alliance revert to pointlessly evil shitheads again, especially after Destiny explicitly removes the guys who were pulling the strings to make them act that way, feels really tired IMO. The best part of CE is that both sides of the conflict actually have legitimate beef with the other, rather than once side being a clear aggressor and the other a clear victim. I'd rather lean into that than toss it out the window.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#22459: May 19th 2020 at 12:47:44 PM

I agree that there are legitimate grievances on both sides. But if there is to be a conflict, someone has to start it and ZAFT suddenly pulling a complete 180 and doubling down on war despite the dual embarrassment of Patrick Zala and Gilbert Durandal would be massively out of character.

Unless you'd prefer ZAFT starting shit not due to orders from the top leadership but due to warhawk elements who want to start shit but don't have the authority to, so they fabricate false intel, hand it down to the brass to draw wrong conclusions about and order the grunts to do something really stupid, then letting the brass and grunts engage in a Blame Game over who's at fault for the war (as the grunts are claiming they were acting under legitimate orders from the brass while the brass are claiming the grunts are just trying to cover their own asses with a Nuremberg Defense)?

Edited by amitakartok on May 19th 2020 at 9:57:23 PM

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#22460: May 19th 2020 at 12:59:54 PM

I mean, I wrote a whole post about how you could turn a third series in the CE timeline into a story about fighting violent extremists without regard to specific faction. I don't think "well someone's got to be the assholes, might as well make it OMNI again" is a particularly compelling sentiment.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
G2BattleConvoy The Hope, The Hero from Installation 07 Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
The Hope, The Hero
#22461: May 19th 2020 at 1:56:59 PM

It doesn't help that ZAFT and the PLANTs are literally composed of people that are supposed to be just better than your average human.

Like talk about a master race...

Edited by G2BattleConvoy on May 19th 2020 at 5:37:19 PM

"We all fail. We all make mistakes. That is what makes us human."
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#22462: May 19th 2020 at 2:08:18 PM

I mean, supposed to be but they've explicitly failed at it until Kira. There's been one Coordinator who actually came out exactly how they wanted him to... not that it seems to really amount to anything given how every Coordinator does seem to be smarter, stronger, and faster than a Natural.

I've always thought that it was weird that there were things like a Coordinator-only OS when being a Coordinator just means that you were genetically engineered. So say your mom just really wanted you to have purple eyes, for some reason that means you can use a mobile suit MS apparently.

Edited by Larkmarn on May 19th 2020 at 5:09:02 AM

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#22463: May 19th 2020 at 2:27:43 PM

I'm getting the impression that Coordination (for lack of a better word) is never just cosmetic differences, but starts with a standard upgrade package of optimized physical/mental abilities, with the rest being optional extra features.

[up][up]I agree with that too. However, pulling the master race card as an excuse to make the genetically engineered people as bad guys for being different personally doesn't fly with me. Not because of the Godwinning but because I happen to be a believer of transhumanism and wholeheartedly support the idea of genetic engineering for the improvement of human existence as long as it's not restricted to just one elite group but is equally available for everyone. Same with cybernetics.

Edited by amitakartok on May 19th 2020 at 11:33:50 AM

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#22464: May 19th 2020 at 2:31:56 PM

One of the things that CE mentions but mostly fails to follow through on is the fact that Coordinator's aren't just inherently superior to Naturals. Coordinators are genetically predisposed towards being above average. That's it. At most, you could say that Coordinators have more potential than Naturals on average — but they still have to work to fulfill that potential, and exceptionally gifted Naturals are still "better" than the average Coordinator.

And Kira's status as the "Ultimate Coordinator" means even less than that. In addition to having his genes tinkered with like normal Coordinators, what makes him "ultimate" is that he was gestated in an artificial womb so that his prenatal development took place in scientifically-determined perfect conditions for growth. The actual difference that this makes in terms of his capabilities is miniscule, it's mostly just that his father (who was also the scientist in charge of the project) was a psychotic control freak.

Unfortunately, while this sort of thing was mentioned a few times, it mostly gets lost in the shuffle. It doesn't help that the Coordinators who get 90% of the screentime are the elite of the elite, whereas the number of baseline unmodified Natural pilots of any significance can be counted on one hand. Of course, it's implied that Rau le Creuset (and consequently Rey Za Burrel as well) aren't actually Coordinators (since they're exact genetic clones of Al Da Flaga, a Natural), but they're able to not just live in the PLANTs but join ZAFT and become elite pilots without anyone being the wiser. But again, this is only hinted at, never really called out.

As much as I love Gundam Seed, there's no question that it dropped the ball a lot. Don't even get me started on how the narrative treats ZAFT generally better than the Earth Alliance, despite ZAFT indiscriminately killing orders of magnitude more innocent civilians than the Earth Alliance did.

Edited by NativeJovian on May 19th 2020 at 5:33:20 AM

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#22465: May 19th 2020 at 2:37:12 PM

[up]Wasn’t Kira also implied to be a Newtype as well?

RangerJackWalker Since: Sep, 2010
#22466: May 19th 2020 at 2:50:51 PM

they're able to not just live in the PLAN Ts but join ZAFT and become elite pilots without anyone being the wiser.

I doubt they're testing people for if they're coordinator or not. Probably just pull out doctors' records at best.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#22467: May 19th 2020 at 2:53:15 PM

[up][up]Newtypes in CE are basically just an easter egg. Mu and Rau get the signature sound effect a couple times, but nothing they actually do can't be explained by finely honed combat instincts. Kira may get the sound effect at some point in Destiny as well, I forget, and he is the only one besides Mu, Rau, and Rey to use wireless funnel-type weapons — but CE's funnels don't work like the UC timeline's.

UC funnels work wirelessly despite Minovsky particle jamming because they use electronics to broadcast the pilot's brainwaves, on a "frequency" (for lack of a better term) that only Newtypes can produce. As such, UC funnels respond directly to their operator's thoughts, but they straight up won't work without a newtype in the cockpit. By contrast, CE funnels are purely technological, not thought-controlled, and with no psychic powers necessary to use them. It's just that most people can't use them effectively because you have to keep track of where you are, where the funnels are, where the target is, how all three (or more than that, if you're using more than one funnel at a time) of these are moving, and then turn that into aiming and firing accurately to hit a moving target in 3D space, which is really hard. (Of course, the Strike Freedom apparently automates most of that, which is another mark against the idea of Kira being a newtype.)

[up]Well, yeah, exactly. That's the point. They can pass as Coordinators despite being Naturals because the performance gap between the two isn't actually that large.

Edited by NativeJovian on May 19th 2020 at 5:54:25 AM

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Drakohahn Since: Oct, 2009
#22468: May 19th 2020 at 7:21:09 PM

Am I the only fan of Gundam SEED who remembers that flashback scene where Kira and Cagalli's dad is talking with their mom and tells her,basically, that he's going to enhance his son as far as the new technology will allow?

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#22469: May 19th 2020 at 8:35:13 PM

[up][up] I mean. It's sorta explcit in that Kira's Super DRAGOONS do not need "enhanced spacial awareness to be used.

Once the Strike Freedom comes around it almost literally becomes a case of "think about winning. Good job, you won."

Edited by Larkmarn on May 19th 2020 at 11:36:58 AM

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
JudasZala Since: Jul, 2011
#22470: May 19th 2020 at 10:09:52 PM

[up]The Strike Freedom and the Legend (and to an extent, the Chaos and the Destroy) use the second generation DRAGOON System, meaning that pilots without or little "spatial awareness" to use them effectively. The Akatsuki's DRAGOON Pack are based on the first generation technology.

The "Super" designation was a leftover from Strike Freedom's original name, the Super Freedom. Its beam swords (also equipped on the Infinite Justice) were called "Super Lacerta" Beam Sabers.

[up][up][up]Kira had a Newtype flash when he activated the Super DRAGOONs on the S Freedom's first launch, and upon sensing Rey in the final duel.

DYK: Kira shouting "HIT THEM!" upon firing the Super DRAGOONs was a homage to a similar scene in Char's Counterattack, when Gyunei activated the Funnels to destroy the nuclear missiles.

Speaking of Gyunei, Rie Tanaka divorced from Gyunei's VA a while ago.

Edited by JudasZala on May 19th 2020 at 1:19:17 PM

MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#22471: May 20th 2020 at 1:03:01 AM

Ouch. Kinda hope this isn't leading up to Koichi Yanadera being a scumbag but if so, well that's life. But hey, maybe it was amicable.

Are explosions science?
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#22472: May 20th 2020 at 6:14:34 AM

It's important to note that "enhanced spatial awareness" isn't some kind of newtype-esque superpower, it just means you can keep track of where things are in relation to each other. Early CE remote weapons don't seem to have any automated targeting, so you have to manually aim them, which is hard. Later ones like the Strike Freedom's dragoons are presumably more "fire and forget" type weapons where you select a target and they attack it on their own.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
JudasZala Since: Jul, 2011
#22473: May 20th 2020 at 3:12:46 PM

Going back to the Mineva/Mariemaia expy plan, she could serve as a foil to Lacus, and she would challenge Lacus's worldview (much like how Mariemaia did to Relena in EW), or if they choose the Lacus as Haman/Darth Lacus/Emperess Palpacus path, she could be Lacus's puppet.

She would have Flay's hair color and Kira's purple eyes, leaving no doubt on who her parents are. I wonder if that would sink the Kira-Lacus pairing, but I’d doubt it, since Kira did sleep with Flay before he fell in love with Lacus.

I would address Kira's actions in GSD; he would still be haunted by Flay's death, and basically, he still sees Lacus as Flay, just like how Amuro was still haunted by Lalah's death, up to CCA.

That could explain why he can go into SEED Mode at will; it's his desire to protect others, and to not see one of his friends die again and again.

Edited by JudasZala on May 20th 2020 at 9:25:11 AM

G2BattleConvoy The Hope, The Hero from Installation 07 Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
The Hope, The Hero
#22474: Jun 2nd 2020 at 1:41:49 PM

So, apparently there's news that MBON is gonna be a digital-only release for EU fans.

That's a little disappointing, but understandable.

Bandai, I know you're making a special blue version of the Eclipse Face of Leos's Extreme Gundam, but couldn't you make Gunpla with parts for all three Faces?! I would buy them!

"We all fail. We all make mistakes. That is what makes us human."
MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#22475: Jun 2nd 2020 at 4:40:39 PM

Its also getting an open beta in the middle of june which is when I assume we'll be able to preorder it.

Are explosions science?

Total posts: 26,090
Top