It's a Gundam thread!

I mean, the Unicorn explicitly used time-travel offensively, so the Phenex's blobs of Newtype energy being anything but time-reversal would be kinda silly. Haven't seen the full movie, of course, so I reserve the right to be corrected, but if they don't say anything one-way or the other, Occam's Razor indicates it's blobs of time travel.

Might as well go see it tonight. I won’t understand wtf is going on so I’ll be enjoying pretty mecha fights

This. From what I can tell from the preview its just really good at dismantling. And then that ability is compared to localized time manipulation in a simile. But because people apparently don't understand the concept of metaphors anymore, a bunch of people seem to think it was outright "canonically" stated to be actual time travel. Which is just stupid.

If the Unicorns could do that Banana probably would've pulled a Shinji and tried to go back while in Godmode in an attempt to prevent the OYW.

I don't think Occam's Razor means what you think it means.

Edited by TheAirman on Feb 19th 2019 at 1:36:37 PM

Occam's Razor is that the simplest solution is usually the correct one. And in this case, the simplest solution is "the Phenex is using established abilities and the time manipulation (which is confirmed by the writer) is a Chekhov's Gun and not a Red Herring" is a simpler solution than "it developed a new ability."

Yep. Which means that whatever mindfuckery that Frontal's Neo-Zeong pulled must have been one hell of an illusion partially constructed from what I can assume is Char's memories pulled from the Sazabi's pyschoframe (don't ask how this is supposed to work, I have no clue).

Which leads me to assume that Riddhe in the Banshee couldn't do anything to interrupt it because the Psycho-Shard was apparently holding it back while also projecting that vision into Banagher's Unicorn...

Even without time travel, Newtype shenanigans is weird to think about.

I envy anyone who has a Tuesday free for this. Mazinger Z Infinity took a year to be released on Blu-Ray and I don’t want to wait that long.

I'm still annoyed that any new Blu-ray releases for us Brits hasn't been announced after G no Reco's Standard Edition and Thunderbolt December Sky...

At least Crunchyroll can keep me going.

@Larkmarn Uh, dude, for all we know, the Phenex being able to literally time travel (and reverse aging?) is just a wild guess made by Michele.

And I'm fairly sure the Unicorn did its shutdown wave in a defensive manner. The pilots of the Revil MS Squadron were unharmed, IIRC. If it was offensive, they'd be dead.

Edited by G2BattleConvoy on Feb 19th 2019 at 8:09:21 PM

... that's... really pedantic in terms of offensive/defensive. By that definition the Phenex was defensive, too. Since it was trying to defend itself. I'm saying it's weaponized time travel.

Which, barring some reveal in NT, it has.

Frankly, the responses here are baffling. "Haha, man people are stupid and don't get metaphors" when the writer of Unicorn and NT is outright going "yep, Unicorn fucking used time-travel shenanigans to shut down those MS. Crazy how no one noticed that."

In-Universe, Michelle is guessing. But from a Doylist-perspective, she's explaining a Chekhov's Gun and acting as a mouthpiece for the writer who seems to be almost gloating that more people didn't see the time-control thing coming.

So the golden Gundam with the two chain things is the Phenex right?

Yepper.

With all due respect, the writer can say whatever he damn well pleases*, but what’s shown on screen is the only that matters. (See also: Tomino on when G-Reco takes place in relation to Turn-A.)

What is shown on screen, over the last 40 years, is Newtypes and Newtypes w/ psychoframes performing many incredible feats, some seemingly telekinetic in nature vs a woman grasping at straws concerning a technology that nobody really understands.

*As a side note, Fukui is a bit of an ultranationalist if I’m not mistaken, so I’d really rather he not say whatever he damn well pleases.

I think it's stupid (again, I'm the anti-Newtype h4x guy) but I'm not a fan of willful ignorance.

Again, I reserve the right to change my mind upon seeing the movie, but unless they explicitly say it's not time-travel shenanigans, the overwhelming amount of evidence (both on-screen, off-screen, and in terms of narrative logic) based on the 23 minutes I've seen leans heavily towards "fukkin' Newtype time magic."

Like I said, it could be that Michele was establishing a Red Herring and not a Chekhov's Gun. But until that's established, I'm not going to ignore the evidence.

What evidence? All they were saying was that the reactors of the Revil taskforce were disassembled. Not to mention the A-Packs claw literally exploded into its components. That's not really time-travel related.

And not being funny, but didn't some people say that it could have been a mistranslation what that director guy supposedly said?

Edited by G2BattleConvoy on Feb 19th 2019 at 9:43:10 AM

Just saw NT.

Couldn't understand the story much but boy was it pretty.

Clearly your soul is weighed down by gravity.

Just saw it too. Enjoyed it. Probably the most competent Gundam film, will post more insights later when I get home.

I mean, Newtypes having a non-linear relationship with time is nothing new. Hence the title of the Char's Counterattack ED. Being able to rewind technology is to Newtype necromancy as telekinesis is to Newtype telepathy, I guess - it's all easier with sapient minds, but the really powerful Newtypes can do it to inanimate objects as well.

Edited by Iaculus on Feb 19th 2019 at 2:06:14 PM

Okay some actual critiques I can think of....

The constant time-jumps & flashbacks can render it a bit incomprehensible, it got a bit too pseudo-philosophical (though that’s not really new for Gundam), the ending is the same as Unicorn as in basically New-Type God hax saves the day, & Rita is a bare bones Lalah expy.

I’m actually looking forward to Hathaway’s Flash if only for its completely cynical ending.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 19th 2019 at 6:55:13 AM

Just saw it.

That was basically Newtype Shenanigans: The Movie.

Was interesting though. It felt like a epilogue for Unicorn... and kind of for the Zeonic conflicts in general. The ending put a decent cap on why psycoframe technology was abandoned, and the movie finally answered the question of what the hell Banagher and Mineva get up to after Unicorn.

There's a part of me that kind of liked the way the movie just head-on tackled the exact nature of Newtypes and their abilities, which other Gundam shows have always seemed to dance around.

After credits scene was the teaser for Hathaway's Flash, which is officially slated for next winter.

Edited by DarkHunter on Feb 19th 2019 at 9:03:51 AM

Yeah, I had to refund my ticket. Doing dinner with extended family and the roads are so congested here after a major accident.

The initial reviews are about what I expected.

Narrative was actually better than I expected, but only because I expected it to have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. It has some interesting ideas and it manages to get one semi-functional character arc out of a dozen or wastes of time.

The most hilarious part is that I honestly think that the movie would have been improved if they left out Zeon entirely. There was plenty of interesting internal conflict there, and the external conflict with the Sleeves felt tacked on and unnecessary. It didn't help that the main antagonist was flatter than cardboard; literally his entire character can be explained as "he's crazy, so he kills things". (Yeah, they tried to give him some motivation, but it doesn't actually inform his actions at all. He's just crazy, so he kills things.)

So yeah. Gundam managed to write an interesting character drama where the giant robots were ancillary to the main focus of the story, and then ruin it by ignoring the interesting character drama in favor of focusing on the boilerplate giant robot stuff instead.

And now we live in a world where a Gundam work exists that I legitimately think needed less giant robot. I'm still not entirely convinced that this is real life.

The antagonist was something that bugged me. Seriously, another psychotic Cyber-Newtype? And the Zeon forces are somehow surprised when he disobeys orders and goes off the deep end?

That's gotten old, Gundam writers. There's more than enough in-universe evidence that Cyber-Newtypes are unstable and unreliable for the characters to have learned to stop giving them any kind of authority or power.

Edited by DarkHunter on Feb 20th 2019 at 7:27:38 AM

Okay, going to go more in-depth. Going to try to use spoiler tags when necessary, but some minor things/mind-boggling obvious "twists" probably will be overlooked.

Firstly, have to parrot everyone else. Zoltan was garbage who existed to fill an antagonist-shaped hole. He and the Neo Zeong II were astoundingly uncreative and the worst part of the movie. However, I appreciate the explanation where Full Frontal came from (since nothing in Unicorn indicates anything but he sprang up, fully formed mask in hand). Honestly, I wish that the Narrative Zeong actually became a thing, and stopping that became the crux of the film. Would've also made more sense from a Rita knowing this was coming and being all "everything went according to plan, you had to stop the Neo Zeong II" since Zoltan and the Zeong were so Generic Doomsday Villain-y. Also didn't care for the needless Serial Escalation. We have personal stakes in these people and the drama. I don't need the stakes to be "oh no, it'll be an event worse than ALL THE COLONY DROPS COMBINED".

In terms of a self-contained, cohesive narrative, this was easily the most accessible and competent Gundam film. Rather than feeling like a continuation or spinoff to Unicorn, it felt like a separate side-story. And returning characters felt like they had gravitas but didn't overshadow the new cast.

Animation was inconsistent. Hair in particular was distracting. Sometimes it floats, sometimes it is rigid. Sometimes it's floating in zero-G and completely distractingly rigid. There was a lot of repetition, and several scenes were shown just... just way too much. Even if half the time Rita has a Face Framed in Shadow, it's too much repetition. Fight scenes were well animated, however.

The mecha impressed me. Already on board with the A-Packs and the Gustav Karl, but as I expected, they don't make it past the 15 minute mark. I didn't expect to be won over by the Phenex or especially that Narrative C-Packs, but here we are. If they make a non-P-Bandai C-Packs with a blue psycho frame, it is bought on sight. If they make a non-P-Bandai Silver Bullet Custom, that is super bought. Also, I super love that Narrative's obvious Core Fighter played a role. I fucking love Core Fighters. I hope the C-Packs include it.

Plenty of narm. My theater laughed out loud when Michele's assistant, appropos of nothing, suddenly says "I've never been interested in woman" to Jona like it explains anything about his current explanation. Also, there's a sequence where younger Jona, Michele, and Rita discuss God and the afterlife that's eye-rollingly lame, but at the same time exactly what I'd expect angsty teenagers to think and say.

Finally, Newtype hax. So the time-twister thing's basically confirmed, and goddamn they do go overboard with... everything. That said, I didn't mind it as much as I expected. See, generally my issue with Newtype hax is that it basically takes over the plot. In this case, we go into a story explicitly about Newtype hax. Thus it didn't feel like said hax at the end were a convenient Plot Device to get a happy ending ( Not that it was a happy ending, anyway).

I think the biggest twist is that the grizzled veteran pilot who initially butts heads with Jona but grows to respect him and talks with another pilot about getting to old for this shit survives. I mean... jesus.

More or less. Things man was not meant to know, and just too powerful.

Edited by Larkmarn on Feb 20th 2019 at 10:57:05 AM

So why did the abandon Psychoframes? Too unstable and dangerous for everbody? No way to properly control it?

"A weapon nobody can control is no weapon at all."

As stated by one character in the film.

They've finally realized that Newtypes are beyond current human comprehension, and trying to make superweapons out of something powerful that you don't understand (and therefore by definition cannot control) is stupid. At the very least, they need a lot more research and understanding on what Newtypes even are before messing with psycoframes again.

Edited by DarkHunter on Feb 20th 2019 at 9:23:05 AM

Considering Newtypes and Psychoframes keep breaking the laws of physics, that's a smart choice.