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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#25176: Jul 3rd 2024 at 12:08:35 AM

Going over some trope pages, I'm reminded of the GM Snipers from 08th MS-Team.

Unlike ordinary GM's, those things were absolute beasts. A single GM Sniper in the last episode managed to be a serious threat to the Big Bad and the protagonists, though the Big Bad ultimately killed the pilot with a shot to the cockpit.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Dayraven1 Since: Aug, 2023
#25177: Jul 3rd 2024 at 1:43:55 AM

“Tomino had a fondness for nonsensical names back in the day.”

Aura Battler Dunbine has characters from present-day Earth who have names as odd as in Gundam, so it’s not even a futuristic space names thing with him.

Edited by Dayraven1 on Jul 3rd 2024 at 1:44:29 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#25178: Jul 3rd 2024 at 8:19:59 AM

It's fun because they're not even any better than a normal GM. Just green and holding a particular weapon. And yeah. That one GM Sniper straight up thwarted the villain's scheme since it did cripple the Apsalas III so that it was no threat to Jaburo.

Then, uh, it ran directly at the enemy and got taken out. But still. Good showing.

A comic book store near me has an MSIA GM Sniper for $45 with a Jet Core Booster. I keep considering getting it.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#25179: Jul 4th 2024 at 3:40:58 AM

Did you know that the Skylab orbital dropped a piece of itself on Australia when it broke up in July 1979, months after MSG 0079 aired for the first time?

Did you also know that Elon Musk, he who wrote a Char-style speech justifying his purchase of Twitter, has been paid by NASA to deorbit the International Space Station at the end of its lifespan?

Yes, we have a legit Char Clone being paid to do a colony drop. To complete the Gundam Colony Drop Bingo, all it needs to do is go off-target and complete the Operation British jokes.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#25180: Jul 4th 2024 at 9:01:59 PM

So I started SEED. Not feeling the character designs here. They feel very generic save for Kira. I really like the GINN's design though. It's a really cool Zaku I expy

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#25181: Jul 4th 2024 at 9:11:43 PM

So I rewatched the battle in 08th MS-Team where the team fights Norris Packard in his custom Gouf.

I'm still impressed by how real the fight feels compared to other fights in Gundam. The fight isn't a matter of which suits are superior. It's entirely down to tactics and experience. It really hammers home the difference between an Ace Pilot and regular pilots...and shows that even an Ace Pilot isn't invincible.

Disgusted, but not surprised
JGC-97 Since: Jul, 2016
#25182: Jul 4th 2024 at 9:22:33 PM

Has anyone seen this text in the page of Gundam 00?

  • Central Theme: What exactly should the legacy of the Gundam franchise be? Which messages and themes should be held up, and which ones should be discarded?
    • Season 1 tries to seriously examine the idea of unilateral interventionism held up by other contemporary Gundam series like Mobile Suit Gundam Wing and Mobile Suit Gundam SEED, and in general the metaphor mobile suits like Gundams represent (i.e. weapons that give the protagonist the power to cut through entire armies and force their personal wills on nations). It puts Celestial Being and the Gundam Meisters in the position of those series leads, and asks if a good such as ending conflict can actually be achieved, despite all the issues standing in the way of such a goal. The season ultimately concludes that no matter how many issues are overcome, all such interventionism can do is reinforce hegemony, ending with the formation of 00's version of the Earth Federation, something most of the mainline Gundam shows consider a corrupt and destructive evil.
    • Season 2 becomes an outright criticism of Gundams and Gundam protagonists in general. The A-Laws are introduced as an even darker mirror to what Celestial Being attempted in season 1, committing massacres and destroying entire nations using the same Gundam / GN technology the protagonists did. The villainous Innovators evoke the main continuity's Newtypes and their instrumentalized Shadow Archetype, the Cyber Newtypes. The cast even includes the Japanese voice actors of previous Gundam protagonists in antagonist roles, such as Judau's VA Kazuki Yao and Loran's VA Romi Park. Especially of note is the main villain, Ribbons Almark, a dark mirror to the original Mobile Suit Gundam's Amuro Ray. Not only is Ribbons played by Amuro's Japanese VA Tōru Furuya, he espouses corrupted versions of Amuro's beliefs in the post-0079 works, and pilots 00 equivalents of both the original RX-78 Gundam and the Nu Gundam. For whatever good there is in Gundam as a franchise, the Gundams and the protagonists themselves are inherently problematic and easily twisted to support outright evils, and thus should not be held up as ideals to be followed.
    • The movie, Gundam 00: A Wakening of the Trailblazer, finally asks what then is of value to be taken from the rest of Gundam, throwing every concept and theme of 00 and Gundam in general at an existential threat represented by the ELS. The assembled armies of the Earth Federation; Descartes Shaman, an Innovator / Newtype turned into a weapon by the state; Graham Aker, representing the power of martial prowess; The full power of Celestial Being back in the hands of the protagonists after season 2; Gundams new and old... all are deemed worthless and unable to stop the ELS. Instead, the only thing of any worth is Setsuna throwing away all his weapons, blowing off the Qan[T]'s armor, and using the power of human empathy and understanding to reach out to the ELS. The same things that help the White Base crew survive the end of the very first Gundam show, and is the message repeated in many of Tomino's other Gundam productions, such as ZZ, Victory, Turn A, and more. And similarly, this saves not only humanity in 00, but as the epilogue shows, saves the 00 continuity from going down the same road as the Universal Century, as it appeared to be doomed to at the start of the movie.

Now, for my opinion regarding whether we should keep it or not: I'm actually fine with what it says about Season 1, maybe just change the wording a bit, but what's written about Season 2 is a big stretch for me. Yes, having the Big Bad share a voice actor with Amuro is definitely intentional, but to claim the A-LAWS and the Innovades as a whole are stand-ins for previous Gundam protagonists is too much. And then we reach the movie. Yes, the message about empathy is what it says it is, but the way it's written seems to be trying to suggest only Gundam titles made by Tomino had this message before. Can't agree with that.

G2BattleConvoy The Hope, The Hero from Installation 07 Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
The Hope, The Hero
#25183: Jul 5th 2024 at 12:18:47 AM

I honestly believe that all the meta references are kinda unnecessary. 00 has a central theme, but it doesn't need meta references to make its case.

"We all fail. We all make mistakes. That is what makes us human."
DynamicFan Since: Mar, 2024
#25184: Jul 5th 2024 at 2:15:25 AM

Speaking of Gundam 00, the Mythology Gag page compares Gundam 00 to Tales of Phantasia where the similarities are likely coincidences at best or huge stretches at worst. I have not played Tales of Phantasia but if anyone here has, can they confirm if they think these references would count as I am considering removing that section.

G2BattleConvoy The Hope, The Hero from Installation 07 Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
The Hope, The Hero
#25185: Jul 5th 2024 at 11:27:00 AM

[up] I would class that as a Shout-Out, not a Mythology Gag.

"We all fail. We all make mistakes. That is what makes us human."
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#25186: Jul 5th 2024 at 12:32:11 PM

I'm still impressed by how real the fight feels compared to other fights in Gundam. The fight isn't a matter of which suits are superior. It's entirely down to tactics and experience.

Honestly this is hilarious to me, because that fight works entirely on plot armor in Norris's favor.

Like, literally the very first thing that happens is Norris leaping up to perch dramatically atop a skyscraper to survey the battlefield. This leaves him completely exposed, long enough for Karen to have plenty of time to line up a shot and fire her beam rifle... and she misses completely. There's absolutely no reason for her to miss. He's standing still, she has clear line of sight, she's not panicked or rushed, it's not at extreme range or anything. (Hell, a previous episode had a situation where she has to make a long-distance sniper shot, and she pulls that off.) This isn't Norris doing something to throw off her aim with his ace piloting skills, she just misses, because otherwise Norris dies immediately and the fight ends. She also takes a single shot and then apparently just stands there for a while instead of taking another shot, for some reason.

Then the second thing that happens is Norris shoots his grappling hook through a nearby water tank, jumps off the building, and uses the hook to stop himself just before Sanders tags him with a cannon shot because it's easy to predict his movements in freefall. Even giving the benefit of the doubt that the grappling wire is made out of adamantium and deliberately designed to support the weight of a mobile suit, how the hell is a rusty-ass water tank supposed to withstand that kind of force? And if the water tank is also built out of adamantium for some reason, how did he shoot his grapple hook through it so easily? Bonus points: he halts his fall just before Sanders would have hit him. Another half a second of falling and he's dead. Lucky him, I guess?

I could go on, but you get the point. The script says "this one ace pilot defeats these three competent veterans who are not aces", but the choreography has to cheat to actually make that happen. Hell, the narrative itself cheats a little. Norris is there to clear the way for the Kergeren's launch. At the beginning of the fight, Norris points out that being equipped with beam weapons makes it simple for the 08th team to shoot down the Kergeren. At the end, when he lets Shiro kill him so he can destroy the final Guntank, he dramatically declares "victory is mine!!". Uh, bro? You didn't take out the beam rifle. You haven't even won by the standard you set for yourself at the start of the fight, you just moved the goalposts.

Anyway, point I'm trying to make isn't that it's a bad fight scene. It's a great fight scene, but it works on an emotional level. It's about making the 08th team feel overwhelmed and powerless against a single skilled enemy — about emphasizing the fact that, for all his lofty ideals, Shiro is just one dude, and he can't even put his ideals into practice in a single battle, much less the entire war. All of that it does very well. But it does that specifically by not going for "real" and instead letting the needs of the narrative bend reality to achieve the result they want.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
DynamicFan Since: Mar, 2024
#25187: Jul 5th 2024 at 4:24:26 PM

[up][up] I don't know enough about Tales of Phantasia on whether to move it or remove it completely. I know a bit of Symphonia but from my limited Tales of knowledge, all the references feel like coincidences and not close to a reference.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#25188: Jul 5th 2024 at 10:59:05 PM

[up][up]Prior to that, the episode also makes a big deal about avoiding hitting another mobile suit's reactor.

That's never really been an issue both in that series or in Gundam in general.

I say the fight feels real because you don't really get the impression the result is because one side has a more powerful Mobile Suit or psychic super senses. But yeah, there's some suspension of disbelief needed to accept the outcome.

And of course, Norris' sacrifice was ultimately pointless because the Federation's GM Snipers were more than capable of shooting down the ship.

Edited by M84 on Jul 6th 2024 at 2:00:29 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#25189: Jul 5th 2024 at 11:10:05 PM

I mean... the fights rather silly when you have Shiro do a ..."Tactical?" YELLING "TAKE THIS" slide down a building and just unloading every bullet he has... and Norris stands perfectly still and gets a dramatic dust cloud only to lamp shade that it looked impressive atleast

This is an outrage against Luminara!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#25190: Jul 5th 2024 at 11:21:07 PM

Though it is kind of realistic that trying that threw off his aim.

Disgusted, but not surprised
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#25191: Jul 5th 2024 at 11:38:39 PM

Prior to that, the episode also makes a big deal about avoiding hitting another mobile suit's reactor. That's never really been an issue both in that series or in Gundam in general.

Uh? It's an issue in literally the first episode of the original Mobile Suit Gundam. Amuro damages the colony by causing a reactor explosion with the Gundam's beam saber, so for the second Zaku he's careful to hit the cockpit while avoiding the reactor. In F91 there's an entire weapon (the shotlancer) developed by the Crossbone Vanguard to avoid reactor explosions when fighting in colonies. It's not like a constant thing, but it's not exactly some obscure thing that's mentioned once and then never again.

I say the fight feels real because you don't really get the impression the result is because one side has a more powerful Mobile Suit or psychic super senses.

I'm not sure that "reality itself warps around Norris to let him win" is more real than your typical Gundam fight, but I suppose the emphasis is on "feel" rather than "real". Like I said, I do think the fight is a great example of emotional storytelling. They just get there by cheating on the nuts and bolts of it.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#25192: Jul 6th 2024 at 12:21:44 AM

Watching more SEED, it's a retelling of classic gundam so the Federation equivalent doesn't really have MS. They're fighting with artillery and Space ships. Interesting that the show actually shows GINN's getting scrapped by the artillery. The ZAFT faction is obviously winning, but it's neat to see the small fries actually get some kills.

Edited by DrPsyche on Jul 6th 2024 at 9:22:59 AM

RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#25193: Jul 6th 2024 at 12:27:09 AM

The first half is 0079 if 0079 has a really toxic teen drama.

SEED was really written with shipping in mind, which proves to be a winning formula.

As for another key difference, it's Arthrun and his gang, and not Le Creuset, who is the constant challenges to the hero.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Jul 6th 2024 at 12:28:32 PM

Continue writing our story of peace.
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#25194: Jul 6th 2024 at 10:42:52 AM

Gundam Breaker 4 had a collab with Pac-Man.

Wake me up at your own risk.
KZN02 The Master of Tediousness (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
The Master of Tediousness
#25195: Jul 6th 2024 at 6:53:20 PM

Silver Phantom trailer dropped yesterday

I was at the Gundam panel yesterday at Anime Expo yesterday, aside from the above trailer, no new trailers were shown. Shoko Nagakawa was pretty excited to talk during the panel.

With a '0', not an 'O'
JGC-97 Since: Jul, 2016
#25196: Jul 6th 2024 at 7:05:41 PM

Lord, it's like there has been no progress since the time of Gundam Evolve and MS IGLOO.

At least it's not another One Year War side story.

Edited by JGC-97 on Jul 6th 2024 at 11:06:29 AM

KZN02 The Master of Tediousness (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
The Master of Tediousness
#25197: Jul 6th 2024 at 7:16:00 PM

I think Requiem for Vengeance covers that already.

With a '0', not an 'O'
JGC-97 Since: Jul, 2016
#25198: Jul 6th 2024 at 7:19:52 PM

I know, and that's the main reason I'm not hyped for that one either, despite having better CG. The trailer and the synopsis didn't give me the impression that it would give me something I didn't already receive from previous OVA.

HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#25199: Jul 6th 2024 at 7:32:32 PM

How exactly can Silver Phantom be watched if it's Meta Quest only (please correct me on the "Meta Quest only" part)?

DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#25200: Jul 8th 2024 at 6:33:50 PM

Having the Strike Gundam have all these different upgrade packs reminds me of the Liger Zero from Zoids. Very toyetic, lots of different model kits to be sold.

I like the Moebius Zero. Reminds me of the G-Armor and Core Booster.


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