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ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#28151: Jan 13th 2022 at 12:38:15 PM

[up][up] ... Not quite as according to the wiki he blows himself up to weaken it, leaving The Heroine and The Lancer to finish the job. Plus it could be argued it's "Just" YHVH as "Usual".

[up] Ironically it was one of the first SMT games to get an official western release... Good for the three people that found a copy.

Edited by ShirowShirow on Jan 13th 2022 at 8:39:26 PM

You are not alone.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#28152: Jan 13th 2022 at 3:28:01 PM

Last Bible Final Boss is another Great Will avatar that takes themself very seriously as the embodiment of it.

He really isn't that different that YHVH, as both are figures that deluded themselves into seeing themselves as a Monotheist Deity in the overall Pantheist world that is SMT. Its final speech is about he admitting that even He is just a avatar of the Great Will and that nothing in the Megaten cosmology is permanent

Definitely is not YHVH, but its a good case of seeing other world where "The Ruler" is not the Yellow Head.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jan 13th 2022 at 6:34:43 AM

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OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#28153: Jan 13th 2022 at 4:16:57 PM

I played Revelations the Demon Slayer I can tell you it wasn’t in that version. Nor does it line up with how monsters are depicted in the Last Bible series.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 13th 2022 at 4:17:34 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#28154: Jan 13th 2022 at 7:11:05 PM

Megaten Wiki says the Game Gear port added a new bonus ending where you fight him. He's a giant eyeball.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#28155: Jan 13th 2022 at 7:48:16 PM

He also mentions the Megaten cosmogony of Worlds in constant death and birth

Watch me destroying my country
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#28156: Jan 13th 2022 at 8:54:35 PM

A glance at the Wiki tells me that the LB series had a bunch of unusual major villains that rarely if ever showed up again. As mentioned, the first had the Great Will. The second had Gaia, and the third and fourth’s final baddies were both transformed humans. Lastly, there was the spin-off-to-a-spin-off Another Bible, which had, uhhhhhh… the Bible. With BIG ANGRY CARTOON EYES.

Nouct over the front from an east coast Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#28158: Jan 13th 2022 at 9:03:16 PM

I mean, look at this thing. It looks like a minor Mario enemy, not an all-powerful demon. [lol]

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#28160: Jan 14th 2022 at 3:45:20 AM

Speaking of older games, been playing Digital Devil Story 2. Honestly finding it more playable than SMT 1 so far. The movement's pretty fast, the negotiation is way less brutal, music's godly, and enemies are much more generous with mag. Having demons that can come out for more than 20 steps really helps.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#28161: Jan 14th 2022 at 5:49:04 PM

So Majin Tensei I was a pretty generic stop-the-demon-invasion game, but wow, II's story was fascinating, and has probably the most nuanced portrayals of Law and Chaos I've seen - it's heavily stressed that most angels and demons are just average Joes, same as humans, and even has the leaders of both factions forming a sort of council, the Tetrarchy, to talk out their differences rather than slaughtering each other. They don't often succeed (Beelzebub, who is for some reason a sexy girl in this one, in particular is pretty awful) but they actually try. If anything the best ending (there are five) is the "good" Law one, which sees all the villains getting theirs and the hero's love interest from the future saying Screw Destiny and traveling back in time to be with him. Neutral is actually a lot more downbeat, with a lot of navel-gazing over whether humans have any right to judge demons and angels for doing what they honestly believe is best for their societies and ending on more of a Now What? note. There's also a Joke Ending, the "bad" Chaos one, which features the main character staying in the future and the last shot being him getting yelled at by an angry old man who is implied to be the future self of one of the other party members.

So yes, not only can non-Jumping Off the Slippery Slope Law and Chaos be done, they have been done; I wonder why it never caught on?

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#28162: Jan 14th 2022 at 6:36:15 PM

Its overall the opossite of the ideological aims of the devs.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#28163: Jan 15th 2022 at 7:50:19 AM

Yeah. I recall someone posting that the Devs are self admitted punks, hence they kinda always make Law look bad. But that was a super long time ago, so I'm paraphrasing.

Like, it's clear the point is that neither side is all that great, but I do think it'd be nice to see the virtues of both (Law especially).

One Strip! One Strip!
asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#28164: Jan 15th 2022 at 10:23:56 AM

OK but SMT V unironically has the best Law path because it lets you fuse demons that are above your level

Bewitching Eyes
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#28165: Jan 15th 2022 at 10:27:55 AM

I'll have to see that for myself when I play the game.

One Strip! One Strip!
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#28166: Jan 15th 2022 at 10:37:28 AM

I still think Abdiel is the best law rep ever because she makes god-fearing speeches and tries to strongarm politicians while wearing metal thigh-highs, pasties and a thong. I practically consider SMTV a comedy because of her.

I haven't gotten too far in the game yet (Because look what happened to my Pro Controller while I wasn't looking) but I really don't like the neutral reps in SMTV. Like they show up and are like "Oh look how cool we are" and spell out the "Let's kill demons AND angels!" thing right off the bat. The neutral reps in SMTIV and Strange Journey are pretty much the complete opposite of all that. Isabeau's somewhat timid and indecisive regarding the whole heaven and hell affair, and Commander Gore is outright stated to be creepy and untrustworthy by most of the cast. It shows that neutral is a semi-hidden, Take a Third Option sort of route while Law and Chaos are aggressively trying to recruit you.

You are not alone.
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#28167: Jan 15th 2022 at 2:51:40 PM

V’s Neutral rep is a man child.

As in he’s cosplaying his own father by wearing his police suit and goes around being a ass. The only humans who get to live is those who are strong. The weak in spirit should be culled!

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 15th 2022 at 2:52:49 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#28168: Jan 15th 2022 at 3:02:48 PM

[up] I get the feeling someone there didn't get the memo that they were designing the neutral rep, not a chaos reptongue

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#28169: Jan 15th 2022 at 3:04:09 PM

No that’s the Neutral rep. Culling the weak willed was something planned on Laws route in Strange Journey too.

Just take that, add “Demons and Angels suc, Humanz rulez” and you’ve got a Neutral rep.

The Chaos rep has to be out here representing Democracy and diversity meanwhile.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 15th 2022 at 3:07:47 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#28170: Jan 15th 2022 at 6:44:29 PM

And constant wars, don't forget this.

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OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#28171: Jan 15th 2022 at 6:58:00 PM

Cause that’s the Regular neutral ending as well. While Chaos has conflict but it isn’t the foundation of everything since it emphasizes people working together, even if that leads into conflict with others. Compared to “Endless war until humanity somehow finds a way to fight back I guess”.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#28172: Jan 15th 2022 at 7:03:25 PM

LOL V's Chaos Hero is hilarious

How is he going to complain that his counterpart doesn't think for himself and rely on God when he's pretty a yes man to Tsukuyomi, a god. And somehow has faith that the Japanese pantheon won't do dumb shit.

Edited by NoName999 on Jan 15th 2022 at 7:04:29 AM

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#28173: Jan 15th 2022 at 7:09:26 PM

I think Koshimizu is said to have a pretty good record as far as Prime Ministers go, so I could see why some people believe he would be a good leader.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
ComicX6 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#28174: Jan 15th 2022 at 7:33:39 PM

I did chuckle at how they basically applied The Worf Effect to Japan's perpetual economic recession.

My Megaman and MegaTen RPG Liveblogs
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#28175: Jan 15th 2022 at 7:34:42 PM

Yuzuru really strikes me as a missing chance. The concept behind both Dazai and Yuzuru is good, a Law Hero that starts as a outcast and a Chaos Hero that is the Ideal Student is pretty fun.

I really wonder what the heck happened on the devolptment of the game, all information of the descarted ideas paints a really weird view.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jan 15th 2022 at 10:39:47 AM

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