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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#20426: Jan 26th 2024 at 1:25:52 PM

To be fair, it's at the end when she believes she's been betrayed that defeats her.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#20427: Feb 2nd 2024 at 3:27:57 AM

Dead Beat...en.

  • I might at some point look into replacing all of my Polish books with the original versions; there's a whole bunch of puns (including one in the very title) and there's nothing done about them beyond translating them literally. The De-Nile joke almost flew over my head, for one.
  • I'm shocked at how major a role Butters plays in this one. He's basically Harry's number two in the last leg of it (except when Ramirez replaces him for the very finale), and remains prevalent throughout (if not necessarily out of his own volition). Thomas, in comparison, is kind of glossed over. He's around for the fair pair of it, but his own struggles (being an incubus with a minimum wage job that's constantly hungry) isn't given that much focus overall.
    • Incidentally, the jokes about him and Harry being in a gay relationship... well, the punchline with Butters at the end is funny; otherwise, I'm cringing a little bit.
    • To go back to Butters, I really liked his and Harry's discussion about the supernatural right after they escape Grevane for the first time. Butters understands that what he saw has no logical basis and is basically... well, magic, but he still tries to rationalize it somehow. Overall, he went over it a bit better than Murphy, though that was helped by Harry actually being willing to inform his allies this time; he had a bit of a problem with that earlier. (and Butters has a few lapses in the book, still, before he has his big moment with throwing himself at Spotty)
  • Not one, but two Black men working in uniformed forces (one policeman, one EMT) are introduced and immediately shown as Harry's tentative allies; it's an interesting coincidence, especially since Rawlins will be somewhat relevant going forward.
  • The Kemmlerites are all a mean bunch; Grevane appears most reasonable (still evil and wicked, but not without raw power pouring off him like Cowl and not puppy-kicking evil like Corpsetaker) until he forcefully Soulgazes Butters. With how Harry always describes the Soulgaze and how he goes out of his way to avoid it unless there's no other choice (i.e. a book earlier with Thomas), seeing another wizard use it without a second thought like that is... chilling. We don't know what Butters sees (or what Grevane sees, for that matter), but it's obvious he's left traumatized by the experience. Later Ramirez will do a quick Soulgaze too, but that's going to save a life instead; an interesting little contrast.
    • Cowl is a bigger player, and there seems to be a lot of speculation that he's Alternate Dimension!Harry based on how he and this Harry interact with each other. I surmise he might be an alternate Justin Du Morne, with Kumori being an Alternate!Elaine instead. No real basis for that one, but considering how big that character is for Harry - they get mentions in just about every book in some fashion - and how little we see them (for understandable reasons) - and supposedly how Alternate!Harry isn't actually "evil" (I think I saw a mention of that)...
    • Corpsetaker is comparatively less defined than the other two, but she'll make a comeback in Ghost Story yet. The drummers are much lesser players, with Li Xian in particular just being a warm body to throw at Harry. Spotty has earlier history with Harry and Kumori sticks out a whole lot compared to the others, so the ghoul just being there as basically a heavyweight thug (throwing shurikens) is particularly notable.
  • Sue! "I reanimated a T-Rex and charged into the middle of a necromantic ritual" is probably the exploit Harry is most known for until he wipes out the Red Court - and for the readers, it's probably the Dresden Files moment: A wisecracking asshole-with-a-heart-of-gold, with strong moral rules but forced to bend them to save the day (but still in a way that won't damn him), doing something thought plain improbable/impossible by his peers and enemies both.
    • Speaking of which, shoutout to Bony Tony for realizing how to con a warlock. It's not exactly a "humanity is a nuclear bomb for the supernatural world" thing that's mentioned in later books, but it's the first such situation I can think of where a vanilla mortal has a leg up on the supernatural enemy (Butters later shows how convenient it is to have a non-magical sidekick with the GPS hunt). Mab referring to it as "ferromancy" is hilarious; doubly so since we'll later learn she has a person whose only responsibility is keeping her up to date with the mortal world.
  • Corpsetaker's mention of how the White Council uses outdated training for mental defense wards will be relevant very soon. I'm kind of annoyed that Luccio immediately stops being a cool old lady (and that, unfortunately, will also be relevant very soon) in the very book she's introduced in.
  • The ongoing background war between the White Council and the Red Court suddenly takes a shocking swerve. I really don't know if I like it; it makes sense the Reds would be able to make such a breakthrough (since they're colluding with Cowl who has an insider in the White Council), and Harry has more important things to do than to fish for info around the world, but... well, I don't know. It doesn't exactly show the Council as incompetent (see Merlin's big ward he throws out basically out of his sleeve; he'll show off "on-screen" in Turn Coat next), but it seems every time we hear of the war, the Reds just keep winning.
    • This too makes sense, since the Council is ossified and slow to change - but I don't know, man. It's hard for me to explain how this makes me feel. I do appreciate the moment Harry takes to rip into the Wardens as the organization; I think it's the first crack he shows in his faith in the Council (since he was remarkably cool about the whole "let's ship Dresden off to the Reds to end the war" thing back in Summer Knight, though the entrapment thing Morgan tries is discussed here) as an organization. Too bad he's a Warden now too, and the very next book starts with him attending the execution of a teenaged warlock...

Proven Guilty is going to be a tough read, I imagine.

Edited by FergardStratoavis on Feb 2nd 2024 at 12:29:11 PM

HeraldAlberich from Ohio (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#20428: Feb 2nd 2024 at 8:25:28 AM

I'm shocked at how major a role Butters plays in this one. He's basically Harry's number two in the last leg of it (except when Ramirez replaces him for the very finale), and remains prevalent throughout (if not necessarily out of his own volition).

I mentioned the reason for that a few months ago.

It was supposed to be Molly. In Butcher's story outline, Proven Guilty would have been first, giving Harry an apprentice of his own to mirror the necromancers and their assistants. But then the series got popular enough for the publisher to decide to put out the next entry in hardcover, which would in turn make a splash and lead to more readers. So the more exciting plot of Dead Beat got moved up one book; Jim et. al. already knew the Zombie T. rex would become an iconic scene for the whole series. But then Harry needed someone to drum for him and save his ass, so the Butters character got plucked out of the morgue and expanded, leading in turn to his increasing prominence in Harry's circle of allies.

I'm trying to remember where I read this; I think it's the author notes on the Butters POV story "Day One."

It's interesting to think about how different the storyline would have turned out if the publisher hadn't made that hardcover decision.

asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#20429: Feb 2nd 2024 at 8:30:41 AM

I wonder if Butters becoming a Knight was inspired by the scene of him saving Harry from Cassius

Bewitching Eyes
HeraldAlberich from Ohio (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#20430: Feb 2nd 2024 at 8:38:01 AM

That's what Uriel claims, possibly Leaning on the Fourth Wall; since Cassius was a former Denarian, it's appropriate for him to be countered by a future Knight.

Edited by HeraldAlberich on Feb 2nd 2024 at 11:38:10 AM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#20431: Feb 2nd 2024 at 8:46:30 AM

He really fell in love with Butters to Creator's Pet levels.

As to Dead Beat, the one scene that stands out is Harry realising that the Warden's aren't all bad, when he fights then failing to save the world because they are prioritising saying some kids before and even Morgan is less just a dick, than burned out of centuries on thebeast.

Also this is he first one with Lash right?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#20432: Feb 2nd 2024 at 8:50:57 AM

My first Dresden Files book.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
allfictions (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#20433: Feb 3rd 2024 at 3:42:08 PM

I'm trying to remember where I read this; I think it's the author notes on the Butters POV story "Day One."
Day One only obliquely alludes to it. It was said and elaborated upon earlier, in various interviews.

You planned out the 20 books and apocalyptic trilogy for the books and how much have you changed now that you have gotten into it?

Not a lot. I changed around the events of Proven Guilty and Dead Beat because Proven Guilty, the part with Molly was originally going to come first and I told my editor, “This one is going to be a little quieter, a little bit more personal than the one before, it’s going to be focusing a little bit more on just a couple of people and stuff that’s important to Harry.” and my editor says, “well, you know, that might not be a good idea for this one.” And I’m like “What?” “You might want to have a story that’s a little bit bigger” “What?” “You might want to have a story that’s a little bit broader and thicker. Something that people can really get their teeth into. Something that’s going to be a little heavier and have more weight.” I’m like “Wait a minute are you saying I’m going into hard cover?” She’s like “That’s not what I’m saying… I didn’t say that!” Cause it was a surprise for me I suppose. So then I said, “Ok we’ve gotta go with zombies and ghosts and animated T-Rex for that one then.”

If seven and eight had been in a different order, what role do you think Molly would have played in Dead Beat (Editor’s note: 7&8’s planned order got switched due to the desire to have Sue in the first hard cover book #7)

Well she would have been Harry’s locked down apprentice at that point, official apprentice. She would have been inducted into the wardens as well at that point. Harry would have demanded a cloak for her as well so she would have had warden time under her belt. Ramirez probably wouldn’t have gotten the role he got because Molly would have been filling it at least to some degree. And she might have gotten horribly hurt somewhere, broken an arm or something like that. Because, the closer you are to the center of my story, the more likely you are to, you know, attract my attention.

One can only wonder where that Molly, going through the Darkhallow and meeting the Wardens in a friendlier (so to speak) setting, would have gone after this. Perhaps instead of a Winter Lady, she would have become that grizzled Warden veteran Harry sees in her Multiple-Choice Future when Soulgazing her.

Edited by allfictions on Feb 3rd 2024 at 6:45:12 AM

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#20434: Feb 5th 2024 at 2:17:34 AM

wild mass guessThe White Council maintains a disinformation department in charge of keeping up the masquerade. It has one person and they hate Harry "I'm In The Phone Book" Dresden. If they ever found out that he thinks the masquerade just maintains itself because people are just that stupid, they will go for his throat.

Edited by God_of_Awesome on Feb 5th 2024 at 2:17:46 AM

Samaldin Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#20435: Feb 5th 2024 at 2:38:43 AM

[up]Said department is likely just about communication. The bulk of maintaining the masquerade is likely shouldered by the Library of Congress.

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#20436: Feb 5th 2024 at 3:51:34 AM

Communications with various agencies across the world, I imagine, or helping maintain some in places that wouldn't otherwise support it.

Chaosjunction Since: Feb, 2010
#20437: Feb 5th 2024 at 6:57:47 AM

This is the same White Council who have just barely managed to reach the 1950's, somehow I doubt they could maintain a whole disinformation department, even if it's just one person.

Samaldin Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#20438: Feb 5th 2024 at 7:39:06 AM

[up]That´s for the Council overall. Smaller groups within the Council or employed by it are apparently quite up to date. Like Lucio is not only up to date on computers (despite being unable to use one), but also made sure the wardens crime scene investigations are comparable to modern policing standards. The Council is also savvy enough on the stock market to finance the whole organisation, as well as supplement the Wardens salary with stocks (since technically the Wardens wages were last updated in the 50s). I find it quite believeable that a small department could spread disinformation, though i also wouldn´t find it unlikely if said department was technically part of a subordinate organisation (like the Venatori).

Krory Since: Aug, 2012
#20439: Feb 5th 2024 at 2:05:32 PM

They also aren't the only people maintaining the Masquerade. Peace Talks/ Battle Ground confirmed that there is a special Library of Congress department that are basically magical Feds.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#20440: Feb 6th 2024 at 1:36:13 AM

I presumed the Venatori are the White Council's Masquerade people given their role in suppressing magical knowledge.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#20441: Feb 6th 2024 at 6:55:42 AM

I will be satisfied so long as someone hates Harry "I'm In The Phone Book" Dresden and would throttle him if they ever heard his Ostrich Speech.

It's merely by satisfaction would be best served by it being some lone harried bureaucrat with unkempt hair, lopsided glasses and a psychotic gleam in their eye as they are crushed under the weight of their job and the feeling that no one appreciates what they do.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#20442: Feb 6th 2024 at 5:00:29 PM

You can tell what Jim thinks of The Masquerade in that harry hiding things is always treated as a horrific betrayal.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#20443: Feb 6th 2024 at 5:24:48 PM

Huh, I never considered that parallel

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#20444: Feb 6th 2024 at 11:03:57 PM

Harry also being in the phone book means that Harry has been in a POSITION to help mortals that other wizards never are.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#20445: Feb 7th 2024 at 2:37:28 PM

The White council caring about the masquerade in Peace Talks felt like one of the series less subtle retcons. It would honestly make sense if they did have only one guy in charge of all of it.

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#20446: Feb 7th 2024 at 7:31:10 PM

To be fair, there's a fundamental difference between "Harry advertises in the phone book" versus "Godzilla kills half of Chicago."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#20447: Feb 7th 2024 at 10:42:23 PM

Yeah, early on most people who deal with Harry thing he's either scamming people by charging them for fake magic or else he's a regular private detective using "I'm actually a literal wizard" as a weird gimmick to drum up business. The only people who take his wizard stuff at all seriously are people who are already in the know, either because they're supernatural themselves or because they're people like Murphy who have run into weird shit.

Openly declaring yourself a wizard to the general public definitely still annoys some people in the White Council on principle, but Harry isn't wrong that most people will need a lot more proof than he's giving them to believe that magic is real.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Samaldin Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#20448: Feb 8th 2024 at 12:29:29 AM

[up][up][up]It´s been stated in the early books that one of the many reasons Harry is disliked by the Council is that he ignores the masquerade (a friend of mine is currently reading the series for the first time and mentioned that). It was just tolerated because a) the Council is rather hands off with its members in non-black magic matters and b) vanila mortals don´t take Harrys claim seriously. So no, doesn´t feel like a retcon at all

FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#20449: Feb 13th 2024 at 2:22:45 AM

Proven Guilty done.

  • Starting with a big one: how the hell did the situation with the Korean warlock get so bad? We know that Black Magic is addictive, but it seems this guy went completely under the radar despite enslaving so many people. That they're mostly mentioned to be family could suggest it's some kind of a more insulated case, from some kind of Korean enclave, I guess - but still... A lot was happening in Chicago in the meantime (the Kemmlerites showed up last book), granted.
    • It's also rather telling how much we've escalated from when we first saw a self-taught warlock, waaaay back in Storm Front. Shadowman had a lot of raw power and surprisingly novel ideas undercut by his inexperience and reliance on thunderstorms - but he was also an adult with the finances and a thin veneer of civility to the outside world. He killed three people and caused general chaos with Tri-Eye.
    • We don't see the Korean warlock in action, but we're told how much he's done despite being a teenager with none of the resources or vague sense of restraint that Shadowman had. I suppose that's not necessarily implausible, but it makes for a hard contrast.
      • One thing that I didn't mention earlier that I appreciate about Harry: despite presenting himself as a tough, unbreakable, wisecracking wizard... he is not. This is only one of the many times he had to find a corner to throw up into, which is an understandable reaction to seeing such an offputting event. The difference here being, it's being instigated by the ostensible "good guys" he's a part of.
  • This is the book where Harry learns to lie better; Murphy is disturbed when she finds out. Harry, for his part, is disturbed when he starts talking like a member of the White Council establishment.
    • This is also the book where he intimidates people not by grand displays of power (though these also happen), but by calmly and dispassionately stating things. Maeve definitely had to second-guess herself there.
  • Overall, this book has a different vibe than all the others, and I don't think we'll get such a radically different feeling until Ghost Story. It's rather telling that after defeating the supposed main villain (Elder Fetch), there's still a fair amount of the book left - and even after Molly's trial is finished, there's still the lengthy discussion between Harry and Michael, and Harry establishing ground rules for his new padawan.
  • The Arctis Tor assault has a lot of parts that are not explained; first of all: who used Hellfire strong enough to punch through the gates in the Heart of Winter and then decimate the garrison? Harry himself needed Summer's power, something antithetical to Winter, for a brief power-up? I don't think that question's been answered as of Battle Ground.
  • Rawlins gets a lot of screentime for a vanilla mortal, and he manages himself quite well. Speaking of that however - we also don't know who wanted Madrigal Raith duped. I guess it doesn't matter since Madrigal is an extremely small fry who dies in the next book, but that's something I'll address once I finish with White Night.
  • We have a good insight into The Merlin as a person here - someone who is unwilling to let his leadership be challenged even in times as trying as these. It's already telling that the Korean warlock was executed in Chicago specifically to try and intimidate Harry into getting in line, and it takes an implicit threat of Summer packing up and leaving the Council to fend for themselves - followed by a literal divine intervention of Michael just being in the right place at the right time - to reconsider executing Molly.
  • Another thing we don't know: who fixed Little Chicago? It's a small thing, but a lot of attention was brought to this project earlier...
  • I like Charity; all things considered, her worries and disdain of Harry are understandable even before she's revealed to be an ex-warlock. At least now this hostility is going to die down a little bit, since...
  • Molly joins the cast as a major recurring character now; she'll have a lot to learn as Harry's apprentice (and boy, will he not teach her enough before he gets shot in Changes...)

These impressions are fairly disjointed, now that I look at them; I apologize.

asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#20450: Feb 13th 2024 at 2:30:39 AM

I can't remember if it's stated outright or not, but I think it's implied Thorned Namshiel was the one who attacked Arctis Tor

Bewitching Eyes

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