Diagonalizing The Matrix
I suppose we should also do something about where Aesop currently redirects to.
Hmm?
edited 27th Oct '10 10:23:03 AM by TripleElation
Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate toMy point is that you can't try to override the trope namer guideline just because you want it otherwise. You need something concrete. And just assuming more think of the genre is not concrete. Evidence that more think of it is concrete, but just going "I assume all these links favor my argument is not evidence, any more than just looking at a related page and merely assuming they favor one argument without actually checking even a sample of them.
edited 27th Oct '10 11:33:44 AM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Diagonalizing The Matrix
^^ Nobody's trying to derail anything and if you claim strawman, please explain where the analogy fails instead of going all "the imperative voice compels you".
^ Fair enough, we should gather evidence of whether people think of the title this way or not.
edited 27th Oct '10 11:36:12 AM by TripleElation
Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
That's exactly what I mean. If there is actual proof more think of the genre, then it can have the main namespace, as that is what the use is for. If it turns out more think of the series, that gets the main namespace.
But let's be careful about wicks where the context could look like both. Better to leave those as undecided than have arguments about them.
edited 27th Oct '10 12:25:41 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.I am 99% certain that most people who refer to the Choose Your Own Adventure series, refer to them as Choose Your Own Adventure as a genre, not a title. I have never in my life heard the term used for anything other than the genre, and even when it's on the cover of a book I assumed it was informative about the genre, the way some books refer to themselves as "sci-fi adventures" or "Fantasy epics."
Well I am 99.44% that most use the phrase for candy bars, and I have never in this lifetime, or past ones, used it to refer to laser beams.
Can you please try to look up hard evidence, not just presenting anecdotes and your "certainty" as fact.
edited 27th Oct '10 2:27:25 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.IIRC the Doublejump guides for Maki Kingdom called itself a Gamebook.
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!Excuse me DQZ, but what evidence are we suppose to find that will satisfy you?
All I can say is that in all my uses of the phrase, and in all the uses of the phrase by others that I know of, Choose Your Own Adventure is used simply to mean that you get to make choices and those choices determine the plot. I have never known it to mean the just the specific series.
It's no different then Aseop, Band Aids, or Scotch Tape.
I think that considering the overwhelming experience of tropers here is that Choose Your Own Adventure is a phrase used to refer to the genre, it is suggestive that that is how most people use it. What do you expect us to do? Commission a survey of the general public to determine what they think?
Normally when Fan Myopia is going on a lot of people show up to point out how they are being myopic.
"Excuse me DQZ, but what evidence are we suppose to find that will satisfy you?"
Stop using personal anecdotes, or "I think", as evidence. We have wicks you can check. How come you aren't looking at those, and just acting as though your feelings of what is used more is evidence enough?
Really, how could you think just assuming something is proof? That's like saying you can just guess a census.
edited 27th Oct '10 8:05:25 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.There is a reason we use a crowner system, perhaps we should get a page action crowner on what to do with this name. I don't think it's possible to find something to satisfy DQZ, but I also think he's far into the minority on the opinion of this.
crowner up
, if anyone else thinks of another way it can be split up, please add it in, I made it with the three options I could think of.
edited 27th Oct '10 9:08:25 PM by Twilightdusk
"I don't think it's possible to find something to satisfy DQZ"
I DID state what would. Look at the wicks. How dare you just assumed I'm using I'm not stating the best way to prove something, when I stated the best way to show which is used more two times.
Did you even pay attention to what I wrote?
I don't care which leads in the crowner, but don't assume I was doing this "just because".
"I also think"
That was part of what I was calling on. Using that as a statement of what a populace thinks, without actually asking (in this case looking at what's written) what the populace thinks, as assuming just thinking so is proof.
It's the arrogance of certainty that makes you all wrong, regardless of what the actual crowner says. Because you are all assuming you are right for fallacious reasons, and acting like I'm unreasonable for calling those reasons stupid, and telling you to find good reasons to think of what most think of this.
And don't tell me I'm doing the same, since I repeatedly asked for proof, which means I'm allowing to be shown I'm wrong, but for valid reasons, not conjecture.
edited 27th Oct '10 9:46:06 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.Before you were clamoring about wicks you were clamoring about seeing how it was used elsewhere, you're tone is very uptight and angry about the whole thing and your criteria is inconsistent. that's why I commented that there's no pleasing you. That said.
Lover's Oath: Described as a "Choose Your Own Adventure Exalted Fanfic"
Schrödinger's Gun: A Batman Choose Your Own Adventure involves the Joker deciding to kill half of Gotham's population. Batman decides that involves piping poison from a utility. The Joker is always at the first utility one chooses to investigate.
Adventure Rebuff: The solo adventure that came with the mid-eighties RPG book Maelstrom was designed for assassin characters.
Affectionate Parody: MS Paint Adventures parodies most RPG and Choose Your Own Adventure tropes.
AFGNCAAP:
- Back in the days of single-player roleplaying gamebooks, the player character was never referred to by a pronoun other than "you", and in the unlikely event they had a name, it would usually be one that could be a male name or a tomboyish name.
- Most Choose Your Own Adventure gamebooks portrayed "you" as a child of unspecified gender... who, in the illustrations, was fittingly androgynous but unmistakably Caucasian.
Air Vent Escape: spoilered entry referring to Ctrl Alt Del's short Choose Your Own Adventure storyline.
All Animals Are Dogs: Used in one Choose Your Own Adventure Goosebumps book, one of the Monster Blood ones. One of the good endings involved a lizard eating grow-cake, happily retrieving sticks and lashing its long, scaly tail, even when it got to the size of a house. Bullies showed up and it defended the nameless main character by roaring.
Alternate Continuity: Where do we even start with Sonic The Hedgehog? We have the games, we have four separate cartoon series and we have a comic based on Sat AM but later diverged into its own continuity. Then in the UK we also have the novels, a series of Choose Your Own Adventure books by the same writers but forming their own continuity.
Amagami:each girl will get 4 episodes centered entirely on them, with a continuity reset every time a new girl gets her turn.
Antimatter:One Choose Your Own Adventure book involved the Player Character meeting an "antimatter" version of themselves.
So out of the first 10 wicks, 1 only referred to the series specifically, 7 referred only to the genre, 1 referred to both the generic genre and the specific series, and 1 misused the trope entirely.
edited 27th Oct '10 9:52:31 PM by Twilightdusk
"Before you were clamoring about wicks you were clamoring about seeing how it was used elsewhere"
How is that inconsistent? Both would be valid, since they would be actual polling of what is associated with this, not just using "I think" as proof.
And I'm annoyed, because people who refuse to admit they don't know things, and then assume that their assumptions are enough, annoy me.
And if you think that's a harmless attitude, note that for years doctors refused to wash their hands in between patients, especially between autopsies and then delivering babies, under the assumption that a gentleman's hand never gets dirty. Discovering germs showed them all to be idiots.
That's an extreme case, but it shows that just thinking you are right without proof only proves you have no proof (and no, I'm not denying I ever fell into that a few times, especially as a teen).
edited 27th Oct '10 9:57:12 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.I wasn't finished with the statement, so edited it. Plus how would not responding to those mean I'm ignoring them? It seems you are just using them to dodge my question. How is asking to look at the links, and then asking to look at the wicks being inconsistent with stating that just using personal feelings and anecdotes are not proof, since neither of those other two things are that, and both are actually looking at what people think of it?
edited 27th Oct '10 10:01:05 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.It's not just the proof alone. It's admitting that proof is the right kind of proof, regardless of what it says, and that using personal assumptions is not proof. It's why we have crowners and wicks to decide renames, not just "I think it's this way" "No, I think it's another way".
If you're using that just to shut me up, that's not really what I was asking for.
That might seem picky, but how could this thread have so many assumptions posted before even a single proper wick check, and only after I explicitly brought it up?
edited 27th Oct '10 10:05:19 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.Before, I was going by the series being first, which shouldn't need proof, although some kept trying to insist that it didn't count somehow.
And I'm not really insisting that more associate it with the series based on assumptions. I'm insisting that we need to prove one way or the other, not just assume either way. I was not being presumptive (as I kept asking for proof, and was willing to be proven wrong). I was stating that a lot of you were, by thinking that writing "I think so" in so many words was proof.
I wasn't calling on the conclusion, but the arguments, and refusal to properly back them up.
EDIT: I do admit that's a bit pushy, but to presume to speak for most tropers without proof is not a good thing.
edited 27th Oct '10 10:13:08 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid."I'm insisting that we need to prove one way or the other, not just assume either way."
That right there, that's why people are irritated at you. You kept clamoring "proof this, proof that," without lifting a finger to actually provide said proof. And now you attack me while and for attempting to start doing so.
edited 27th Oct '10 10:14:30 PM by Twilightdusk
You still think the proof alone was the point? Have you actually looked at what I wrote? Even the part you quoted does not mean I just wanted proof. I wanted you to realize the proof was necessary, because proof is good, not just because I insisted on it.
edited 27th Oct '10 10:15:13 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.BTW, post #71 is where I started on this particular thing, and here's what I wrote again: "You can't just assume most associate with the genre instead of the work. You have to prove it first. Otherwise it's Fan Myopia presented as fact. If you did prove it, the claim would actually be valid."
Note the last part. It means that proof is there to make the assumption valid, not just to make the assumption right.
The reason that is important is that you are assuming what a large group of people other than you think. You really need to prove that you know, not just decide that you know, since that can affect how people follow and understand the site.
edited 27th Oct '10 10:29:36 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?

When I looked, I only saw a few * as obviously about the actual series. Ones that actually named one of the actual writers or called it the Choose Your Own Adventure series. Removing 'gamebooks' took those out, as did removing 'publisher'.
And yes, the majority of us do want Choose Your Own Adventure as the genre, because that is what the genre is usually called. In addition, I'm finding it hard to search for just 'gamebooks' in Google and get anything relevant. In further addition, looking at the on-site google search, 'gamebook' only returns two pages of results, most of which are for two specific books. Choose your own adventure returns at least 10 pages, many of which aren't even wiki-worded. I think the first one there I saw that was definitely about the actual series was on Long-Runners, three pages in.
They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?