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Is Vic Mignogna a homophobic Bible-thumping asshole?

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JethroQWalrustitty Since: Jan, 2001
#151: Jul 8th 2010 at 1:21:09 PM

yeah,, well, it's a complex question, and I'm not even sure how I feel about it myself.

Anyway, I did see a clip on youtube about what Vic thinks about Yaoi. His opinion seems to be "you like what you like, I like what I like, I just feel a bit odd about my character being paired up like htat", which is reasonable. He seems to take it with a good sense of humour.

But there is a slight problem in that he doesn't seem to accept certain subtext, but again, I don't watch dubs, so I would know.

(also from WAY back, about Tamaki, he is obviously in love with Haruhi, but there's something between him and Kyoya. It might be just Kyaya -> Tamaki, but Tamaki seemed to derive some exitement from gettink Kyoya out of his shell and pin him to the floor in the flashback of when they formed the club. That's just how I see it).

ACDrawings YOSH! from MY PERSONAL REALITY Since: Jan, 2001
YOSH!
#152: Jul 8th 2010 at 1:22:25 PM

^x5 I'm not trying to bash it. I just don't have any desire to approach the place willingly. I mean, if you were afraid of the Deep South and knew of the Wild Wild West, a black differently colored American with liberal socially progressive values and secular teachings average public school education wouldn't want to be there or necessarily associate with people form there, unless they broke the stereotype of their origins.

Obviously there are exceptions but like I said, certain mindsets from there would not be surprising.

edited 8th Jul '10 1:22:50 PM by ACDrawings

When All Else Fails, you have fun and flirt wit da ladies, dats da Drawings way!
Anarchy just a medicine seller from Perak, Malaysia Since: Jun, 2010
just a medicine seller
#153: Jul 8th 2010 at 1:30:07 PM

^^ Mmm, I'm a subs person too, so I don't really care about what Magnolia thinks.

Also I'm more of a manga than anime person, so what subtext I get is mostly through the manga. I think that there is a stronger case for Kyouya-> Tamaki subtext, but not so much for Tamaki-> Kyouya.

By the way - this might be of interest to you - the mangaka herself seems to be averse to people taking her Ho Yay seriously (she seems to be doing it mostly for the laughs), to the point that she once told her readers to please stop requesting Hikaru X Kaoru couple fanart on the back of a tankoubon. And then she caved in and drew them anyway, but instead of the regular couple art, she drew them in adorable panda suits as children. Not that I'm complaining, but she seems to be deliberately trying to avoid any Ho Yay that can be interpreted as serious. Hence the toning down of the Hikaru X Kaoru yaoi fanservice as the manga progresses.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#154: Jul 8th 2010 at 1:31:00 PM

If you assume that someone fits a stereotype until proven other wise you're a horrible human being.

Fight smart, not fair.
ACDrawings YOSH! from MY PERSONAL REALITY Since: Jan, 2001
YOSH!
#155: Jul 8th 2010 at 1:31:39 PM

^ I admit my fears are a little hyperbolic.

When All Else Fails, you have fun and flirt wit da ladies, dats da Drawings way!
melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#156: Jul 8th 2010 at 1:36:49 PM

I c wat you did thar, Deboss.

JethroQWalrustitty Since: Jan, 2001
#157: Jul 8th 2010 at 1:45:52 PM

@Anarchy: Incest is something else. I'm more Mori/Hani guy, though it's a bit of a shotabait.

But seriously, Kyoya is so not into girls.

ACDrawings YOSH! from MY PERSONAL REALITY Since: Jan, 2001
YOSH!
#158: Jul 8th 2010 at 1:46:29 PM

^ I don't think he's into anything.

Except maybe money.

When All Else Fails, you have fun and flirt wit da ladies, dats da Drawings way!
Anarchy just a medicine seller from Perak, Malaysia Since: Jun, 2010
just a medicine seller
#159: Jul 8th 2010 at 1:49:51 PM

Oh, no, sorry, when I said Hikaru X Kaoru yaoi fanservice I meant the yaoi fanservice they put on for their clientele. It pretty obvious that both of them are in love with Haruhi. Though Kaoru->Hikaru might be debatable? Just a little? Maybe. I think Mori X Hani's pretty much jossed, what with Hani getting a female love interest and Mori pretty much explicitly saying that he's not interested in Hani in THAT way.

Come to think of it, Kyouya->Tamaki probably has the strongest Ho Yay subtext right now, out of all the host club guys.

^ Oh, he has a heart all right. Especially when it comes to Tamaki. Not necessarily in a romantic sense, of course. I haven't watched the anime, but I think it might be clearer in the manga.

edited 8th Jul '10 1:52:22 PM by Anarchy

Noimporta Since: Jan, 2001
#160: Jul 8th 2010 at 1:52:08 PM

Except maybe money.
And Tamaki.

Nyktos (srahc 84) eltit Since: Jan, 2001
(srahc 84) eltit
#161: Jul 8th 2010 at 2:09:16 PM

@Anarchy: Well, Californian dubs seem to have a higher chance of getting on (American) TV, and I wouldn't be surprised if that means better pay. Also, a lot of American cartoons have the voices recorded in California, so if you want to do both anime and Western animation you'd be better off there. But yeah, Funimation is by far the biggest anime dubbing company now (and ADV used to hold that position) so there are definitely more dubs produced in Texas than anywhere else.

Of course, there are a fair amount of VAs (including Vic Mignogna, incidentally) that do work in both states.

edited 8th Jul '10 2:10:02 PM by Nyktos

I guess it is.
Arilou Taller than Zim from Quasispace Since: Jan, 2001
Taller than Zim
#162: Jul 8th 2010 at 2:14:56 PM

Isn't the entire point of Ouran that the Ho Hay is well... For show?

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent
Anarchy just a medicine seller from Perak, Malaysia Since: Jun, 2010
just a medicine seller
#163: Jul 8th 2010 at 2:26:15 PM

Yup! And the whole thing is a parody of shoujo tropes anyway.

^^I imagine it would be tiring, not to mention expensive, having to keep flying in and out between states to get jobs. But then with big name VAs like him, that wouldn't be a huge deal I suppose.

edited 8th Jul '10 2:27:16 PM by Anarchy

Noimporta Since: Jan, 2001
#164: Jul 8th 2010 at 2:32:45 PM

Isn't the entire point of Ouran that the Ho Hay is well... For show?
It's left deliberately ambiguous.

Anarchy just a medicine seller from Perak, Malaysia Since: Jun, 2010
just a medicine seller
#165: Jul 8th 2010 at 2:35:51 PM

Well, there's the Ho Yay that's obviously for show (Hikaru/Kaoru being the most prominent example, and you can probably count Mori/Hani in there as well, as well as the Hikaru/Haruhi/Kaoru love triangle since the clients believe she's a boy), and then there's the Ho Yay that takes place outside the context of their host club fanservice.

PikaHikariKT Since: Jan, 2001
#166: Jul 8th 2010 at 2:43:06 PM

There's actually something about the twins' Ho YayTodd Haberkorn was pretty uncomfortable recording those scenes (listen to the commentary for ep 5), something that Greg Ayres was all too happy to take advantage of.XD

AXavierB Since: Jan, 2001
#167: Jul 8th 2010 at 2:44:07 PM

I'm into Ho Yay and Incest Yay but even I get a little uncomfortable watching those twins together.

ShayGuy Since: Jan, 2001
#168: Jul 8th 2010 at 2:47:25 PM

About the sexuality thing, I think that having well-defined sexual identities (i.e. "I only sleep with men and I act like a woman! Always! Period! I'm not attracted to women in any sense AT. ALL.") is a very recent, Western social phenomenon.

You think? Because if you're going to make either that claim or its opposite, I think some sources are needed. (Wikipedia's got a lot of information on the subject...and for some reason, the article on human male sexuality is way longer than its distaff counterpart. And like this site, pretty much everything is not prescriptive but descriptive, and of some inherently messy stuff at that. Don't forget that older and non-Western societies also have had massively incomplete understandings.)

Besides, most of CLAMP's works are set in modern Japan or something like it, and there's been a pretty strong Western influence over the past couple centuries.

Because CLAMP is not operating under the mindset of much current Western media, in that homosexual behavior/homoerotic undertones HAVE to be tied to a particular sexual orientation. Sexuality in CLAMP is a much more fluid, invisible, subtle thing, and I think that makes Westerners uncomfortable, because you seem to have this need to categorize people into different sexualities.

Again, this isn't just a modern Western delusion. Forget stereotypes — sexual orientation does exist. It's not a matter of "neat little boxes," either; I'm perfectly aware that a lot of people agree on it being a continuum or even much messier than that. In my ideal world, same-sex couples would get the same rights as opposite-sex couples, and society as a whole would eventually lose interest in the whole matter of people's preferences beyond "what's mine?", "what are the medical consequences?" and "how much is this person I'm interested in attracted to my sex?". How preferences would divide up if you polled a population is left as an exercise for the reader.

Which results in the impression that characters in CLAMP have no sexuality or are pansexual because CLAMP doesn't feel the need to pigeonhole characters, like "Oh, you're gay" or "Yup, you're a lesbian". Everything in CLAMP is about love. Just people loving other people. And there's all there is to it.

No. People are sexual beings with sexual preferences. You cannot deny that and still claim that you're talking about human beings. "Pigeonhole" is not the word here. If someone is sexually attracted to either sex, fine. But don't pretend that that doesn't mean "bisexual." That's the definition of bisexual. And if Nanase Ohkawa really thinks gender Does Not Matter in human interactions, I have to wonder what world she lives in, and whether this notion just comes down to ulterior motives. (It doesn't help that she's already at a disadvantage with me on this after utterly failing to sell me on Rika/Terada. Sorry, but just claiming Values Dissonance isn't going to cut it there.)

Anarchy just a medicine seller from Perak, Malaysia Since: Jun, 2010
just a medicine seller
#169: Jul 8th 2010 at 2:47:39 PM

^^Pffft, they're just doing it for the fangirls.

And it's a lot more toned down in the manga, especially in the later chapters. I've seen screencaps of them with roses in the background and everything though, which makes me really want to watch the anime to see the Ho Yay there, heh.

I'll probably get around to it one of these days.

^Oh? What is this Rika/Terada you're talking about? It's been a while since I read Cardcaptor Sakura, mind reminding me? And since when has liking to draw Ho Yay or Les Yay become "ulterior motives"?

Otherwise, just because someone is attracted to both males and females doesn't necessarily mean they're bisexual. They could be pansexual. They could have had sex with females primarily at one stage of their lives or with males at another stage of their lives - their orientation may be fluctuating all over the place. They could be romantically attracted to one gender, but sexually attracted to another. They could simply not identify as gay or bisexual, even though they had sex with people of their same sex. What about men who get aroused, involuntarily, when raped by other men? What about men who will get blowjobs from gay guys but never allow themselves to be topped? What about best girlfriends who makeout with each other and grope each other to get attention from guys? What about guys who fool around with each other in a mock romantic way?

Everyone's had feelings of love, admiration, and attraction to some member of their own sex or other. Girls can think "Wow, that woman's boobs are hot!" and boys can think "Man, what I wouldn't do for that man's abs".

This is why researchers use the term "men who have sex with men" and "women who have sex with women" when talking about things like this because they acknowledge that behavior doesn't necessarily indicate sexual orientation.

Again, people have sexual preferences, to be sure. Of course most people will prefer having sex with a certain gender vastly more to another gender. But those preferences can be fluid and messy and don't fit neatly inside our preconceived notions of what sexuality or sexual orientation should be like, especially when it comes to something like attraction.

Then again, talking about sexual preferences when it comes to CLAMP might be a bit misleading, since none of their characters ever actually have sex.

Also, I checked Wikipedia as you suggested, and it's apparently where I got that impression from, because it says:

"Classifying sexual desires or people on the basis of sexual orientation is a modern Western concept. Doubts have been raised about the validity of this concept in non-Western and indigenous societies, as well as in the pre-modern West."

Regarding the longer article on male homosexuality than female, I'm not surprised. The scientific community is still male-centric, even with all the progress we've made in terms of gender equality.

edited 8th Jul '10 3:09:04 PM by Anarchy

Larfleeze Agent Orange Since: May, 2009
Agent Orange
#170: Jul 8th 2010 at 3:15:18 PM

Did I really just read that some of you think only gay people should be allowed to play gay characters???

WOW. That's just... wow.

I can't even begin to describe the legal shitstorm that would cause...

edited 8th Jul '10 3:15:39 PM by Larfleeze

Do you know what people want the most? Something somebody else has.
Anarchy just a medicine seller from Perak, Malaysia Since: Jun, 2010
just a medicine seller
#171: Jul 8th 2010 at 3:19:18 PM

To clarify, only one person said that. So it's not "some of you", it's "one of you". Said person later said that there's nothing inherently wrong with straight people playing gay characters, only there is a tendency for straight actors to go straight to negative gay stereotypes when playing gay characters.

I personally believe that good actors should be able to play all kinds of characters regardless of their sexuality.

edited 8th Jul '10 3:20:03 PM by Anarchy

Nyktos (srahc 84) eltit Since: Jan, 2001
(srahc 84) eltit
#172: Jul 8th 2010 at 3:21:31 PM

@Larfleeze: I don't think Jethro wants straight people playing gay people to be legally prohibited...

I guess it is.
KillerRabbit Just wondering from In the Ning Nang Nong Since: Jan, 2001
Just wondering
#173: Jul 8th 2010 at 3:26:16 PM

I don't think Jethro stated that straight actors should not be allowed to play gay characters, merely that gay characters should be played by gay actors if possible. Its not a standpoint that I agree with or think is rational, and his understanding of what an actor does is different from mine, but it would be massively insensitive to say that his fears aren't very understandable. Semi-related, consider the fun fact that until 1968 any depiction of homosexuals on the British stage other than as twisted, depraved threats to the public good were banned.

edited 8th Jul '10 3:29:38 PM by KillerRabbit

They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams for an instant, then it's night once more
AXavierB Since: Jan, 2001
#174: Jul 8th 2010 at 3:29:06 PM

The lead actors of Brokeback Mountain were straight and I think they did a pretty bang-up job portraying a gay couple.

I personally believe that good actors should be able to play all kinds of characters regardless of their sexuality.

I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so. =P

Anarchy just a medicine seller from Perak, Malaysia Since: Jun, 2010
just a medicine seller
#175: Jul 8th 2010 at 3:31:42 PM

^Ah, you used the same example as I did.


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