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Moderation in the wiki and the forum, and how to improve it

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shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#376: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:32:48 PM

[up][up][up] TroperTales.Rocks Fall Everyone Dies is a useful page. It gives examples of the trope in action in people's actual campaigns because otherwise Table Top Game examples don't really work on the main page.

edited 1st Feb '11 8:33:31 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#377: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:36:14 PM

Hold on a moment, you're suggesting that an entry called "Noble Bigot" shouldn't have been moderated like other TT pages, but entries that directly point out how prejudiced the real posters are hate speech?

Try looking at the situation from our perspective: A single problematic edit among the tens of thousands of edits on the tens of thousands of articles on this site is easy to miss. A rash of edits on one page in a short amount of time that include racial slurs is going to look like nothing more than vandalism, which gets reverted and the editors in question get banned to prevent more of it.

Is the Noble Bigot TT article a problem page? In my opinion, yes. But believe it or not, we've had worse. And the problems with those articles were resolved by editors who brought the pages to our attention on the forums or Ask The Tropers.

The forums are filled with editors whose goal is to improve the wiki. Sometimes an outside perspective can be helpful, especially by bringing up a problem article that has been overlooked. The process works best when done in a mature, helpful fashion.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
HarryMiste Curtain Call from Dark Side Of The Moon Since: Dec, 2009
Curtain Call
#378: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:36:47 PM

Troper Tales.Rocks Fall Everyone Dies is a useful page. It gives examples of the trope in action in people's actual campaigns because otherwise Table Top Game examples don't really work on the main page.

Which goes back to my earlier point; just make it a topic on the Tabletop Games forum. Making an entire TT section creates more stuff to moderate when it's more sensible to keep it into a pre-existing area.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but there is no "big lie", there is no "system". The universe is indifferent.
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#379: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:37:49 PM

And again: Troper Tales Pages predate the forums.

edited 1st Feb '11 8:38:01 PM by Madrugada

HarryMiste Curtain Call from Dark Side Of The Moon Since: Dec, 2009
Curtain Call
#380: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:39:56 PM

And again: Troper Tales Pages predate the forums.

Oh hey, I didn't know that. Still doesn't change my point; if anything, it makes me wonder why nobody thought of that the first time.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but there is no "big lie", there is no "system". The universe is indifferent.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#381: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:40:23 PM

And the forum gets cleared out regularly. It would suck to have a genre where all the examples get wiped out when no one ads a new one for a month. Never mind that that forum isn't just focused on cateloguing tropes for individual pages. They'd get drowned out in the noise.

edited 1st Feb '11 8:42:44 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
KrisMahai Hm? Since: Jan, 2013
Hm?
#382: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:42:15 PM

^ That's a con to having anything on the forums. We might as well not have any of the media subforums by that reasoning.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
TheManInBlack Since: Oct, 2009
#383: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:43:32 PM

Then the Troper Tales function has been made redundant? Listen if Troper Tales isn't being removed, then FF and other problem areas HAVE to be. Noble Bigot, Fetish Fuel, He Man Woman Hater, and other ones prone to controversy have to go, least we deal with bigots coming on here and posting about how much they hate women, jews, and people with lisps.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#384: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:43:35 PM

Nobody thought of what the first time, Harry? That maybe someday we would add forums so there wouldn't be a need for the Troper Tales page?

Also, we really want the forums to be used for conversations, The troper tales pages are more like drive-by posting — there's very little back-and-forth interaction. I post mine, you post yours, someone else posts theirs and there's no conversation.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#385: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:43:43 PM

Except this is specifically examples of the trope. If all the anime examples got wiped out if no one added one for a month would you be happy about it?

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#386: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:43:55 PM

Are we seriously considering getting rid of Troper Tales?

I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal if they were nuked, but I feel that some of them are pretty good or at least neutral/harmless (A Good Name For A Rock Band, Random Number God for example). I would support nuking the icky/negative ones, though.

Perhaps we can make a crowner for candidates for nukings, and vote them up or down?

edited 1st Feb '11 8:45:21 PM by melloncollie

HarryMiste Curtain Call from Dark Side Of The Moon Since: Dec, 2009
Curtain Call
#387: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:43:58 PM

And the forum gets cleared out regularly. It would suck to have a genre where all the examples get wiped out when no one ads a new one for a month. Never mind that that forum isn't just focused on cateloguing tropes for individual pages. They'd get drowned out in the noise.

There's really nothing stopping people from making new threads when the old ones die out, not to mention saving whatever stories they find interesting and reposting them upon request.

Nobody thought of what the first time, Harry? That maybe someday we would add forums so there wouldn't be a need for the Troper Tales page?

That when the forums were developed nobody thought to say 'hold on a moment, why not just have Troper Tales in the forums?'

edited 1st Feb '11 8:45:15 PM by HarryMiste

Well, I hate to break it to you, but there is no "big lie", there is no "system". The universe is indifferent.
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#388: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:44:45 PM

Well, at present the forums are mostly for hanging out and chatting, or for discussing ways to improve the wiki; they're not meant to serve as actual examples. If they were, presumably we could pin the threads in question so that they didn't get purged?

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shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#389: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:45:39 PM

At which point you'd end up with enough pinned threads that you'd have to go back several pages to get to what people are actually talking about.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#390: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:46:16 PM

Not if we kept it all in one thread.

I would support nuking the icky/negative ones, though.

Sounds like a good compromise to me.

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SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#391: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:46:24 PM

Just make a "Troper Tales" sub-forum, much easier to police.

AnonymousUser Since: Jan, 2001
#392: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:47:35 PM

If I had to defend TT, I could say the very problematic ones could be PRLC'd.

Also, ironically, to me, the "quarantine" actually encourages the sort of entries on TT and FF. I was never under the impression that anecdotes and "the scene in Episode 14 where Kathy flosses gets me so hot" sort of entries were acceptable outside of those pages, though that's just me.

BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#393: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:48:09 PM

The idea of the Troper Tales crowd coming over to the forums is slightly alarming...

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AnonymousUser Since: Jan, 2001
#394: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:49:13 PM

Though a lot of the more embarrassing entries are more than two years old by this point and, hopefully, regarded as Old Shame by their writers, who are probably unknown by this point.

Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#395: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:49:29 PM

I'm not really sure what purpose the "Why didn't anyone think of...?" line of questioning serves. As hard as it is to read minds, it's even harder to do so in a situation that involves jumping in a time machine with the dial set to several years ago.

I think it would be more constructive to focus on problems that we have now, and ways that we can deal with them.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
Ninja_Orca Since: May, 2009
#396: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:49:38 PM

^^^ Wouldn't that kind of feeling be another reason why it should be purged?

edited 1st Feb '11 8:49:53 PM by Ninja_Orca

melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#397: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:49:53 PM

@ Bobby: If we're making comparisons to the IJBM situation, Yack Fest and OTC don't seem to have been negatively affected much.

HarryMiste Curtain Call from Dark Side Of The Moon Since: Dec, 2009
Curtain Call
#398: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:49:58 PM

The idea of the Troper Tales crowd coming over to the forums is slightly alarming...

Well, at least people will now have their names attached to their sickening fetishes. That's a pretty good compromise.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but there is no "big lie", there is no "system". The universe is indifferent.
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#399: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:50:54 PM

@ Bobby: We could ban the disturbing crowd if they cause trouble, and if it's on display, people might be less inclined to write drive-by stuff fetish crap.

edited 1st Feb '11 8:51:48 PM by SpellBlade

AnonymousUser Since: Jan, 2001
#400: Feb 1st 2011 at 8:51:45 PM

I find it slightly amusing that Fetish Fuel is near-universally hated and yet we have a 100,000+-post-long thread about fetishes right here on the forums.

(Though this is probably fallacious thinking)


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