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neobowman つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX from Unidentified Proxy Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
#426: Nov 29th 2012 at 6:15:20 PM

Yay, fresh meat!

Zakamutt Ninja Tactician from Uppsala, Sweden. Since: Sep, 2012
Ninja Tactician
#427: Dec 25th 2012 at 9:12:18 PM

Regarding Tomoyo After, I must agree with Ultimately Subjective that it's a bit underwhelming (but gets significantly better after the somewhat offputting, though ...interesting... sex-romp beginnings). I'm especially bothered by Tomoyo's character; she comes out as downright Narmfully melodramatic quite often. To be honest, I can't quite remember her route that well in CLANNAD, but it does feel like she's undergone full-on Character Derailment; in CLANNAD she came off as a strong woman who could kick anyone's ass, but still had a gentle side, but in After she only ever hits people for gag purposes. That said, I believe she actually wanted to undergo some Chickification all along her route, so I guess it's not entirely strange.

I'm not that far into the VN yet, though. Perhaps it can redeem itself.

edited 25th Dec '12 9:13:23 PM by Zakamutt

Currently running (well, more like walking) a Swan Song liveblog here.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#428: Dec 26th 2012 at 12:57:31 PM

So, starting up Rewrite. I haven't the slightest idea what it's about and the OP didn't help with that at all. It'll be tough to keep myself from going to the trope page.

edited 26th Dec '12 2:19:33 PM by Arha

RagnaTheSaviour Since: Oct, 2011
#429: Dec 26th 2012 at 3:27:40 PM

Finished Kotori's route on Rewrite, now doing Lucia.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#430: Dec 26th 2012 at 6:20:41 PM

Akane is highly entertaining. Unfortunately, I'll probably do her last or second to last.

risingdreams Insert witty title here from Peixeiroland Since: Feb, 2011
Insert witty title here
#431: Dec 26th 2012 at 6:30:22 PM

Does anyone know where to find Rewrite?

edited 26th Dec '12 6:30:31 PM by risingdreams

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#432: Dec 26th 2012 at 6:32:07 PM

I found it at erogedownload after looking around a little.

neobowman つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX from Unidentified Proxy Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
#433: Dec 27th 2012 at 12:00:01 AM

WTF IT'S OUT?

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#434: Dec 27th 2012 at 12:10:13 AM

No, just the five route patch. Moon is finished but not out and Terra hasn't been started yet. That puts the translation at around 90% so I'd give it a month or so until completion.

edited 27th Dec '12 12:10:37 AM by Arha

Einander Since: Jul, 2010
#435: Dec 27th 2012 at 1:34:14 AM

If anyone hasn't played the Rewrite partial yet, I'd probably recommend doing the routes Kotori -> Lucia -> Shizuru -> Chihaya -> Akane. The order doesn't matter that much, but Ixrec recommends Kotori first and Akane last, and I'd say Akane's route works best if you still have Chihaya's route fresh in mind. Similarly, Chihaya's route contrasts nicely with Shizuru's.

In terms of route quality, I'd probably say Kotori, Chihaya, and Akane are the best routes. To use a Tsukihime analogy, I'd say Kotori/Lucia/Shizuru are the Far Side and Chihaya/Akane are the Near Side. Like in Tsukihime, the two sides are pretty different. Unlike Tsukihime, though, you should go Far Side -> Near Side. Thoughts below. (Spoiler tags only spoil the route in question.)

- Kotori's route absolutely nails what it's going for; it conveys just how deeply these two are in over their heads, and Kotori and Kotarou have a damn complicated relationship. It's incredibly interesting. 'Good' writing, not 'fun' writing.

- Lucia's feels weak to me, for all that other people seem to like it. Cheating on the starting mystery with Lucia's viewpoint did not endear it to me. While Lucia's situation was legitimately awful, I felt like the emotional appeals didn't really hit me well. Making Kotarou forget a personal revelation so he could remember it again at a more dramatic moment was also really, really awful. Just not well-written, unfortunately.

- Shizuru's is strange, and I think many people are going to dislike it. Not many stories have you playing as the 'weak and passive love interest' type. To some degree, I think it sacrifices itself to strengthen Chihaya's route, which is a problem when Shizuru's route is unlockable, Chihaya's route is not, and there's no enforced or internally recommended route order. It feels a lot like Fate in F/SN — setting establishment, conflict is relatively muted, Kotarou is relatively impotent, and it's ultimately weaker than the two routes that should follow it. Funny comparison, really... In some ways, Shizuru is a giant Ciel expy.

- Like Shizuru's route, Chihaya's route is strange for the work. (Vague F/SN spoilers in tags) It's shounen. Shounen as all get-out. By the end of the route, Kotarou is probably the strongest living creature on Earth, familiars included. Still, after Kotarou's relative helplessness in the first three routes, having Kotarou become able to stand on his own and fight for what he wants is really refreshing. Plus, it ties in to Shizuru's route really damn well — there's a reason for the tree reference at the end of that one! Sakuya and Kotarou feels a lot like a deliberate reimaging of the Shirou-Archer relationship in F/SN, and like in that novel, the route focuses on those two more than the heroine. And like F/SN, it's to the benefit of the route.

- If you get to Akane's route and you have not played Fate/Stay Night through to the end, DO THAT FIRST. Alternatively, stop and read Seorin's LP of it, all three routes. "Seorin Let's Play Fate Stay Night" turns it up on Google. F/SN is absolutely required reading for this route. And for the love of god, don't read these tags before playing this route! Alright, here goes:

Akane's route makes me very, very sure the UBW similarities in Chihaya's route are entirely deliberate, because Akane's route is the result of some disgruntled writer reading Heaven's Feel. It has to be. "So he's willing to protect Sakura, even if she's no longer in control of herself, even if she's a danger to the world? He's really willing to throw away everything he believes for that? And this turns out well? Are you insane?" Akane's route is the harsh, biting kind of deconstruction, the kind that takes a specific work and absolutely skewers it. It takes all of the same elements of that route — the character who wants to be a hero, the girl, his decision to throw everything away for her, the danger she poses to the world; hell, even the weapon creation of ability! — and makes it incredibly clear that the decisions Kotarou made were wrong. It even deconstructs the idea of atonement while it's at it! And while it's doing this, it manages to tell a very good story all on its own, even outside of the massive Take That!. Aurora Evolution justified the route all on its own — that is quite possibly the coolest thing that could ever be done with the Aurora and Rewrite powers, and the fact it turned out just like the Key's ribbons makes it even cooler.

It's a good VN.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#436: Dec 27th 2012 at 11:14:42 AM

Yeah, I might as well go with that order. I was going to go with Chihaya earlier but eh, I'm not that interested in seeing her route right now. I was initially looking forward to Lucia but she's oddly flat. I guess she'll turn out to be more than the stereotypical tsundere later but for the moment she's not exactly the most engaging of characters.

Kotarou is kind of creepy.

...Wow, this is not much like Key at all. And come to think of it that makes sense. I forgot that it wasn't just Ryukishi and Key involved in writing this but also the guy that did Cross Channel. No wonder Kotarou reminds me of Taichi.

Kotori's route certainly has effective writing. I have no idea what's going on. I think Kotarou might just be a delusional basketcase or possibly that the gray world is really where everyone is living except for when they slip.

Lucia: I'm pretty sure she has no sense of taste. Being able to tolerate spicy food well doesn't mean you assume a parfait is supposed to be spicy. Nor that you can't tell the difference between a jalapeno and something far worse. The idea occurred to me during Kotori's route but the events here are just solidifying that impression. Also please don't be building up to the really obvious twist. Aw, they did. Oh well. And yeah I can see what you mean about the ending. Holy shit Kotarou you're not that stupid, figure it out already. This seriously cuts into the overall quality of the route.

Oh, and honestly? Without suppressants I think she probably should die. Lucia is like a more likable Sakura, except she doesn't have an off switch kick in at the end.

Akane speculation: Well, since everyone else seems to be involved in this stuff I'll just go ahead and assume that Akane is the boss of Gaia.

Shizuru: Decided to do as much Rewriting as possible this run. I was curious to see if I could get a bad end out of it or anything. Downer ending. Damn. On to Chihaya.

Also, despite a couple complaints this is probably my favorite Key VN.

edited 29th Dec '12 10:50:56 PM by Arha

Einander Since: Jul, 2010
#437: Dec 30th 2012 at 12:26:03 AM

If you're want an answer on use of Rewrite and story effects... (I answer the yes/no and elaborate a little; if you prefer to find out on your own, don't read) I've used as much power as I could in every common route playthrough and I never saw a point in a route where it seemed to matter. There's definitely no Bad Ends for overuse, there's probably none for underuse, and I suspect the dialogue referring to Kotarou's out-of-route use of Rewrite is static. Rewriting "Eyes" during the Common Route appears to be the only Rewrite that affects dialogue in later Common Route scenes.

I'd probably rate Rewrite above Little Busters so far. Little Busters is a little too rear-loaded, while Rewrite is better about distributing its content. It's going to have a hard time topping Refrain with Moon and Terra, but it doesn't really feel like the type of story that needs a True Route. That just makes me all the more curious as to what they'll do with them, though!

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#438: Dec 30th 2012 at 12:30:14 AM

Yeah, I figured during Shizuru's route that the story wasn't going to let it make a difference whether you use Rewrite or not. Why is her ending such a huge downer anyway? I though Lucia's was pretty bad but come on, some of the downer factors didn't even make sense. I suppose Chihaya's ending will be about as happy as Kotori's or maybe slightly worse while Akane will get a super depressing ending like Shizuru did. Edit: Oh, the game let me crush a rock that he couldn't break before due to rewriting.

I agree with your assessment. Actually, I might put this above Clannad. Some of the writing decisions are kind of questionable but damn this isn't what I expect from Key. Oh and honestly? I'm not really looking forward to Moon and Terra much. Especially if they play out how I think they will.

Edit: Unrelated, but Akane's hair color keeps weirding me out. It doesn't suit her character type at all and I'm wondering if that's the point.

edited 30th Dec '12 10:24:50 AM by Arha

Einander Since: Jul, 2010
#439: Dec 30th 2012 at 12:39:42 PM

I think Shizuru's ending makes sense in light of what you see in other routes. Remember how they said Sakuya was Gaia's big ace in the hole? Shizuru can take him in single combat while missing part of her life force. She's Guardian's biggest combat asset, and unlike most familiars, she can move around in public with complete freedom. Shizuru's route ties her down in protecting Kotarou, has her fall into a coma saving his life, and then she spends time recovering and resting in bed. She doesn't get back out into the field until the end of the route, and when she does, the Key's already started singing. Considering how narrow the window was for success, losing that much time was catastrophic.

To move from Watsonian to Doylist reasoning: Kotarou spends Shizuru's route being protected and too weak to protect her. When he's told that's just the way it is, he gives up and says it can't be helped. In light of that, Kotarou doesn't "deserve" a happy ending. When he does put in that effort, he gets a happy ending, as the Kotori and Lucia routes show. If he does get a happy ending at the end of Shizuru's, then it's because he finally broke that pattern and did something to help — he gives Shizuru her life back and uses Rewrite to survive anyway.

There's more to say, but I'll wait until you finish Chihaya's route. (And there's even more to say after Akane's! Shizuru -> Chihaya -> Akane is a rare example of a cross-route story arc that isn't dependent on a True Ending to tie them together.)

One additional thing about Shizuru's route: I did it before Lucia's, so it didn't sink in until later, but... When Lucia says she's going away, I don't think she's talking about a mission transfer. She says she probably won't meet them again, so I think she's being sealed away. In Lucia's route, Kotarou probably gives them hope that there's a way to seal the poison away or make people immune to it. If she's still becoming immune to the suppressants, and there's no reason to think that there's a chance... How depressing.

RagnaTheSaviour Since: Oct, 2011
#440: Dec 30th 2012 at 12:51:55 PM

On the last route now, being Akane's. So far my favorites are: Chihaya > Kotori = Shizuru > Lucia. They're not bad at all, mind you, it's just my preferred order.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#441: Dec 30th 2012 at 1:26:15 PM

Lucia's route was a happy ending? She killed two hundred thousand people and will be stuck in bunkers for years. And yeah, since I did Lucia first I pretty much knew why she was going away.

Anyway, so far, I guess I'd go Kotori > Lucia > Shizuru. Kotori's route made a fairly strong impression on me.

Einander Since: Jul, 2010
#442: Dec 30th 2012 at 2:12:46 PM

[up] They make a point of saying "It would have happened regardless; at least this way they didn't break Lucia's mind first." And even if they're forced to stay away from other people, Shizuru can visit (probably Chihaya too, since she has the protective charm) and they seem to be happy together. It's kind of a mixed bag, but it's at least meant to be a good ending for them.

edit: Though, really, the point was that "Kotarou's intervention made the situation better in both endings." Kotori probably would have died in her route if not for Kotarou, and they'll probably have a good life together afterward. In Lucia's route, Lucia at least gets to live. He never takes action in Shizuru's route, and since Guardian loses so much keeping him safe, the world gets destroyed.

edited 30th Dec '12 2:16:54 PM by Einander

RagnaTheSaviour Since: Oct, 2011
#443: Dec 30th 2012 at 2:17:48 PM

[up][up] Happier than Shizuru's, hahaha.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#444: Dec 30th 2012 at 2:26:09 PM

Oh, sure. It's bittersweet, not an outright downer.

Anyway, I can see reasons for why Shizuru's route would end so badly from a Doylist or Watsonian viewpoint, but still.

Oh, cool, Chihaya's route really throws some more perspective on Shizuru's ending. Kotarou might very well be able to assume a human form. It's still a downer ending but less depressing for those two at least.

Chihaya = Kotori > Lucia = Shizuru. Shizuru's route gained a few points. On to Akane.

edited 30th Dec '12 7:35:48 PM by Arha

neobowman つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX from Unidentified Proxy Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
#445: Dec 30th 2012 at 9:42:12 PM

FGREHWOGIEHAGAERG

I wanna read this so bad but I don't like reading incomplete V Ns becasue Ican't finish them gertoigeaoigeiaogoigeoagregagrgererga

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#446: Dec 30th 2012 at 11:57:55 PM

Well, Akane's route sure contrasts with the route that came before it huh! I... suppose I hope he doesn't meet any of the people he knows. That would be pretty sad. Man, even seeing Nishikujou and how he treats her is bad.

...Yeah, I see where this is going. Please don't turn Akane into evil Sakura. Come on, you already made me think that Lucia should have been killed.

I do not think I am going to enjoy this story much at the current pace. Self destruction is unpleasant to watch and while I think Akane really does care about him she's clearly manipulating him. It's an effective story because it's really, really depressing in a way that HF was not. Not pleasant to read, but effective. So, yeah, this story made me really unhappy.

I assume the oppai ending is Kotarou successfully groping Akane. I am going to pretend that that is the true ending for Akane.

edited 31st Dec '12 2:50:28 AM by Arha

Einander Since: Jul, 2010
#447: Dec 31st 2012 at 6:35:54 PM

Kotarou's deal with Akane is actually a common route thing tied to the quest system. (Very minor spoilers) Some of the quests deal with genuine supernatural phenomena, and Akane isn't able to deny them, but neither does she admit defeat. Do enough of them in a single playthrough (this requires Akane's version of the common route, since that's the only one with enough quest days) and Kotarou forces her to admit that the supernatural must exist. They never discuss the bet again after that.

(Honestly, I kind of expected him to hold up his hand, show her Aurora, and say "I win" in at least one of the routes. It would have made a pretty decent comedy scene on Chihaya's route. Betting on something you know is false is a decidedly risky proposition, especially since Akane's files clearly show she and Gaia know he might be a superhuman!)

I haven't heard much about the Oppai Ending, other than that Ixrec says it's well worth the effort. I am equal parts terrified and intrigued.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#448: Dec 31st 2012 at 6:38:12 PM

Oh, I know where it would take place. I saw the point where it would begin but it's not unlocked yet. And until proven clearly otherwise I am going to assume it's Akane's good ending! Her route was very unpleasant.

Einander Since: Jul, 2010
#449: Jan 1st 2013 at 12:47:02 AM

Akane's route was one of the better ones, I think. It wasn't always easy reading, but I enjoyed it all the way through. It's a tragedy in the classical sense: The hero has a fatal flaw, namely his emotional dependence and willingness to throw everything away for Akane. Due to his own actions, things devolve and fall apart. He had plenty of opportunities to stop it, and that makes it his fault. It even draws on Shizuru's route — because he does nothing, the Key begins to end the world in much the same way. At the same time, however, because he took action before, he has the time to act and begin to redeem himself. And the second part was necessary to express the themes AND kept it from getting too depressing. People seemed to expect environmental themes out of Rewrite, but... Between the five routes, I have a feeling the writers were channeling Kreia when they wrote the VN. (Or Elie Wiesel.) "So you will do nothing? Apathy is death. Worse than death, for at least a rotting corpse feeds the birds and insects." The worst thing you can do when faced with a problem is nothing.

On another level... Well, I never liked Heaven's Feel much. Seeing a route that tells its own story while also serving as an incisive criticism of that story's themes and events was nice. There's just too many similarities for it to be an accident. It was one of the rare cases where you see something and think, "Yes, this is exactly right. That is exactly how I feel about this thing."

edited 1st Jan '13 12:47:31 AM by Einander

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#450: Jan 1st 2013 at 1:02:31 AM

I can't enjoy a story about two likable people ruining themselves for no reason. Possibly because I felt Akane and Kotarou's actions didn't really make a lot of sense. Kotarou is instantly willing to kill good people and Akane goes nuts and then later reveals the problem was about as dire as a nagging voice in the back of her head. I can appreciate the story and what it was trying to do, but there was not a single moment of it that I actually enjoyed reading. Death, failure, suffering and misery.

It was meant to make you feel bad and it succeeded, so I can't say I hate it, but I don't think I'll ever be able to read through it a second time. It succeeds where HF fails, in a way, because I'm much more invested in Akane and Kotarou than Sakura and Shirou.

And thus, I look forward to oppai ending.

edited 1st Jan '13 1:03:33 AM by Arha


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