China LIED to me!
Edit: On closer inspection, I believe the original statement is establishing that most countries are PROBABLY not populated by a white, male majority...
...probably.
edited 21st Jan '10 12:50:06 PM by Justice4243
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.You are correct, you don't need to have a white male to identify with, but it is the easiest way to attract the largest audience in the most important markets... the young white males to identify with the protagonist, the young females to squee at how handsome and viable he is. Everyone else to watch anyway to see what the ruckus is about.
Now, taking issue with going with the most marketable option is perfectly reasonable, but, honestly, in a culture where success is measured by dollars, I have a hard time blaming Cameron for stacking the deck, especially when dealing with some of the hardest science fiction we've seen in some time (generally an unsexy genre).
edited 21st Jan '10 1:09:40 PM by Dracomicron
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - E. Gary Gygax@Fawriel: you overlooked the NOT in that sentence lol.
@Dracomicron: White straight males are a minority in every country on this planet. They are not catering to the majority of people. And ever noticed that a lot of girls are complaining about Avatar?
edited 21st Jan '10 1:13:47 PM by Pretty_Angel
I haven't noticed that a lot of girls are complaining about Avatar, actually, because I only pay attention to genderless internet usernames complaining about Avatar.
So girls are complaining about Avatar?
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - E. Gary Gygax
Respect the Red Right Hand
People I know range it from "Good movie" to "Best movie ever". I personally am between, with the statement it's the most visually beautiful movie ever. The plot is an excuse for the Scenery Porn.
@Dracomicron: Actually, yes, it seems so. The majority of people I've encountered complaining about the lack of story and the shallowness of Jake's character or those who were analysing the movie in social context were in fact female. I think it was when someone on Rotten Tomatoes started complaining that yet another chick was giving it a bad rating that I started to have a closer look on who was actually writing what kind of movie review. I know it's a subjective observation, but still...
I know a couple of women who haven't seen the movie, and refuse to see it because of the fact that it's straight-white-male-centric. Of course, these two also think that Supernatural is only good if you look at it through the lens that the brothers are gay for each other.
On the other hand, my little sister, who is intelligent, educated, and has good taste, thinks that Avatar is great for what it is and fantastically entertaining; she doesn't expect it to be Hamlet.
edited 21st Jan '10 2:21:39 PM by Dracomicron
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - E. Gary GygaxI gave up on arguing about the movie. There are some die-hard crazy fanboys and fangirls out there that will defend it without any real logic, calling it "Great" and "Revolutionary" without really saying why aside from "The CGI was amazing". If anyone is given enough money and time with FX studios, they can do that. It's nothing special to me.
I'm still a firm believer that a cliche, shallow, anvilicious, and outright pretentious plot about a race of Mary Sues is something that should be considered inexcusable no matter how flashy the animation is.
I'm still waiting for the day when movies will go back to a good plot instead of having to be a massive-budget FX machine to be considered a good movie...
edited 21st Jan '10 3:07:33 PM by Echospeed
We can all learn something from the Legend of Zelda and it's triforce, Power is nothing without the courage and wisdom to make use of it...Well, unless I have magically grown testicles overnight, I would have to say that yes, (some, because I don't think the Hive Vagina actually exists) girls are complaining about Avatar — and not just from a feminist perspective (Oh God, the amount of Mighty Whitey and Noble Savage in that film is painful considering that Cameron's claims that it's about cultural tolerance and respecting each other's differences)
edited 21st Jan '10 4:03:34 PM by Sparkysharps
Respect the Red Right Hand
..did you just insult an adaptation of a broadway musical for being a musical?
edited 21st Jan '10 4:35:31 PM by Ronnie
I wouldn't hold my breath. Movies are too expensive these days for the executives to take serious risks with. If you really want a great plot, you're better off with a book.
edited 21st Jan '10 8:32:43 PM by WoolieWool
Out of Context Theater: Mike K "'Bloody Pussies' cracked me up"The biggest offense, IMO, with Avatar is that it didn't portray humans fairly. They're either Friend to All Living Things, pure as fresh snow hippies or uncaring Corporate suits/soldiers/mercs who you're supposed to in no way like, with emphasis that most of them are the second group. It doesn't portray any "normal" humans looking at the situation from a rational view at all. It's either "Leave them alone completely forever" or "Kill 'em all!"
When you feel like the portrayal of humans is insulting to your very race, it kinda messes up the movie's message. Yeah, Humans Are Bastards, but hey...I happen to be one, so give us a fair chance.
Worse yet, the Na'Vi aren't fairly portrayed either. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE...is either a perfect Spiritual Leader, Noble Warrior, or skilled Hunter. They don't show any of 'em being a cowardly, good-for-nothing douchebag. None of them has gone Ax-Crazy and started scalping humans. And they don't even really emphasize how stupid, arrogant, and xenophobic it is for them to not be willing to negotiate at all with humans.
While Humans are jerkasses (Even the good ones), the Na'Vi are perfect. Even the worst of them are better than the "Good" humans. It's a wall-banger in a huge way.
I loved District 9, so I'm not completely biased against the particular Humans Are Bastards message. I thought District 9 was worlds better because it actually showed that though SOME humans are bastards, not all are and half of them that are, are doing it out of sheer ignorance (Wikis and his team honestly seem to believe they're helping early-on, while they're burning eggs and evicting people).
But it also showed that the Aliens are far, far from perfect and brought at least some of it on themselves. Some are rational, reasonable, and morally superior to humans. But some, quite a few even, are self-serving survivalists scounging, stealing, and generally making a mess of things.
It also had some actual character development, both with the aliens being unique individuals instead of them being cookie-cutter stereotypes that seem ripped right out of Pocohantas...and the humans were unique too, instead of all of them being either Biologist hippies, Corrupt Corporate Execs, or General Ripper.
I didn't think Avatar was horrible, but IMO, it was pretty bad. And the biggest issue is that since it sold so well, movie producers will make a habit of it's biggest offenses. "Screw the plot, we've got CGI!"
We can all learn something from the Legend of Zelda and it's triforce, Power is nothing without the courage and wisdom to make use of it...Avatar's biggest offense is going for Black-and-White Morality as opposed to District 9's Grey-and-Gray Morality.
Oh, and making the Na'Vi Mary Sues... obviously Cameron wan'ts to be one of them.
INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.The thing about Avatar is that "Respect people different from you" and "Take care of the environment" are aesops that have been drilled into our minds since elementary school. Do we really need another movie to tell us what we already know?
On another note, there's apparently a preliminary script floating around the internet where more humans and avatars join up with the Na'vi. I wish James Cameron had made that movie.
edited 22nd Jan '10 6:24:34 AM by SapphireFlame
Are you not entertained?Sapphire: Not if it becomes a wish-fulfillment Mary Sue dream, no.
Sparky Sharps: . . . Hive Vagina? Now there's a term I haven't heard before. Hey, women might have a few latent psychic abilities, but there's a long stretch between borderline telepathy and a Hive Mind.
Sakamoto demands an explanation for this shit.

But here's a secret: You do not need to have the same skin-colour or gender to identify with a character. This is something that everyone who's not a white straight male (aka the majority of people in probably every country worldwide) is learning from a very early age. But white straight males -especially those who run the business- keep this system going and are brainwashing you with the idea that you as a white guy would be too stupid to identify some other kind of protagonist.
edited 21st Jan '10 12:25:36 PM by Pretty_Angel