I didn't really get a Humans Are Bastards vibe from it, as mentioned. More of the "Humans are Idiots" vibe, really.
However, that makes it even more difficult for me to swallow the whole Violence Is the Only Option thing.
It seems my gripes with the movie are not the same as other peoples' gripes with the movie. Maybe it's because I'm a wuss.
edited 11th Jan '10 4:46:59 PM by Pannic
James Cameron is evidently raceblinder than a racebat.
Seriously. What. A. Naive. Little. IDIOT.
I know enough about the racial wounds of this country to know that that isn't the way you patch up problems like this.
Stupid, stupid, stupid! Cameron isn't racist, he's just dumb as rocks and horribly naive! And no amount of good will will help you when you screw like this!
edited 12th Jan '10 12:23:20 AM by Charlatan
^ I think it's settled that Cameron picked up the idiot ball with this movie and just won't let go of it in the interviews.
Writer/director Cameron, who is white, said in an e-mail to The Associated Press that his film "asks us to open our eyes and truly see others, respecting them even though they are different, in the hope that we may find a way to prevent conflict and live more harmoniously on this world. I hardly think that is a racist message."
Yeah, because solving a conflict with violence and showing both parties clearly not accepting each other totally gives you that impression. Broken Aesop much? <_<
edited 12th Jan '10 4:24:06 AM by Pretty_Angel
After watching Avatar I reminded of an important message I was taught courtesy of The Grim Adventures Of Billy And Mandy “…just because someone looks different than you or thinks differently than you doesn't mean you should be afraid of them. It means you should be angry at them! How dare they be different! What, my way of life's not good enough for them?”
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.That souned almost like Word Of Pratchett.
'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?I know the trope doesn't apply to this film, but am I the only one who saw the scene where Neytiri meets human Jake, and thought of Hot Skitty-on-Wailord Action?
... I thougt I was the only one... But yeah, proportions might be a bit of a problem... Puny Earthlings. And let us please not speculate on biochemistry, ok?
'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?Deleted Scene: Jake discovers the Na'vi have acidic bodily fluids.
Y'know I think Cameron gave us a nice easy plot on purpose. He just wants everyone to look at the world he built, not specific little characters runnin' about. And I'm not going to bother trying to defend this movie anymore than that, I'll get no where cause everyone's pretty rooted into their opinion by now.
Also, if he makes a nature documentary on Pandora I am so there.
Real Life rwby rose^^ Don't Explain the Joke!!!!!
'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?The Pope versus blue fuzzy Zulu people (sadly not as interesting as that description).
Meanwhile, what the fuuuuuuuuuck.
edited 13th Jan '10 11:04:09 AM by Charlatan
@ Actually, I agree. I got a little away from myself when I said that this movie is another generations Star Wars, but I did mean it. This movie is pretty easy to understand, and is shiny. Hence, many younger audience movie goers will absolutely love it. Personally, I thought it was a little TOO easy to understand, but I’m a jaded 26 year old. I HAVE my Star Wars. This is some other generations “Best movie EVER”, and despite all the hate the movie’s going to get, that generation will always have the impressive revenue the movie brought in to back them up.
@Charlatan Take that my brain! One most wonder if there are similar thoughts about the planet Kashyyyk.
edited 13th Jan '10 11:25:48 AM by Justice4243
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.If some of the stuff on the page referring to supplemental material for Avatar is correct, they turned the Na'vi into an entire species of Mary Sue Elves. This frustrates me to no end... partly because I've seen some of the kinds of arguments and sweeping generalizations in there before.
To take one example out of the page's gripes: Yes, there are animals in nature that mate for life in general. It's not an absolute. Red foxes are one of them. Most are monogamous relationships for life. Some are polygamous relationships with one male. The list goes on. But part of the reason why they mate for life in general is because their lives are short to begin with.
Mind you, I don't mind the idea that they'd be monogamous in general if they had longer lives, but it's the "in general" part that's important to remember.
Sakamoto demands an explanation for this shit.Holy cheese and crackers and Fresca at that article.
You know, I can't help but feel bad for those dudes. The thing is they need to learn to accept the beauty in a movie for what it is...beauty in a movie. :/ There's tons of beauty in the real world too if you just look. These people need to do that.
Please don't tell me that I'm dreaming When all I ever wanted was to dream another sunset with youI'd just like to point out that someone who would get depressed and/or suicidal over Avatar would get depressed and/or suicidal over something regardless. A certain sort of person gets lost in fantasy when their own lives lack compelling outlets. As we learned from Jack Chick, if someone involved with something like satanism (or, you know, Dungeons And Dragons) kills themselves, then it's the thing that they're involved with that's at fault, not their mental disorder, unhappy family life, unfulfilling job, etc.
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - E. Gary GygaxI suddenly have the urge to write a letter stating “I can’t live in a world that has things as horrible as Jack Chick tracts.” And then off myself.
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.You know, sometimes I see people going completely apeshit about things they like, like "Oh my God, Master Chief is so bad ass! He's the best hero to ever grace a videogame!" or "Gurren Lagann is a work of perfection and every second of it made my BURNING SPIRIT FLY HIGHER AND HIGHER" and I wonder if I'm Blessed with Suck to never become so emotionally invested as them in any peice of fiction I've ever experienced. They look like they are having real fun, even if I think they are a bit disconnected from reality.
Then come things like this. Every time I see people claiming Digimon to be real and being hidden away from the public eye via a huge consppiracy, teen girls wanting to be vampires like Edward Cullen or this Avatar support group I realize I am actually Cursed with Awesome.
What surprises me is that we have basically reached the same concñusion as the vatican.
Now imagine when we make really good VR. ExistenZ.
'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?The view of it being "humans are stupid" rather than Humans Are Bastards seems like a moot point to me. It accomplishes the same broad generalization. In all honesty, though, it isn't that they're being down on humans that typically bugs me about most Humans Are Bastards plots. A lot of the time I really do find humans to be bastards. The thing is, it's almost never simply that humans are bastards, it's always that humans are bastards and another people are more innocent, morally superior, and just plain holier. The usual suspects are aliens (of course), robots, animals, or nature itself. Sometimes you get altered humans or mutants, but those tend to be a little grayer.
Does anyone else get a feeling like there's a lot of All There in the Manual going on with this movie? Whenever I read discussions that mention plot holes and weaknesses, either here or elsewhere on the internet, there seems to be people referencing the wiki or other outside materials to explain or justify a plot point.
I'm sorry, but no.
I'm not criticizing the people who are quick to reference supplemental materials, I'm criticizing the fact that it's necessary, and I don't think anyone should find these explanations to be adequate. I should mention at this point that my problem with this isn't exclusively directed at avatar.
I understand that there's some complex worldbuilding going on, and it's not possible to fit every little detail that you want into the story, but you can only get away with leaving stuff unexplained if it doesn't directly effect the plot. There are types of works where you do have a little more leeway, like sequels, side stories, spin-offs, and expanded universes. In those, it's expected you have at least a passing familiarity with the original work, so it's acceptable not to go over every minor detail, since you should know it already. Video games, as the source of the trope, also get some leniency since their main function is generally gameplay, not storytelling. It's still not okay, but a plot hole in a videogame isn't as bad as a plot hole in a movie, in my opinion.
I'm not really a fan of Death of the Author, I do think the writer's interpretation has more weight. This doesn't extend to poorly established plot elements, though. A plot hole explained by a supplementary source is still a plot hole. I don't care if you have a wiki to explain events in the story, it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't included in the story. If a fact is going to color the perception of plot elements, and the writer simply can't be bothered to include it, that's Bad Writing. Like I said, existing continuities can get away with minor amounts of it sometimes. Does. Not. Work. In. Reverse. An original work should be expected to stand on its own.
The big thing that struck me about this in avatar was the whole unobtainium thing. You can tell me it's space oil all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the movie didn't bother to tell us. The company's primary motivation does seem to be greed, but in the context of the movie, for all we know, unobtainium could cure baby cancer. No, that still doesn't justify killing another people for it, but it changes the context in which the conflict is viewed.
And yes, I'm aware of the irony of referring to avatar as an original work.
More thoughts! Sorry, I kept getting sidetracked each time I tried to post them before, so they've backed up.
Anyways, I was thinking about Avatar and Aliens, what with the whole James Cameron and Sigourney Weaver involvement, and couldn't help but feel like their themes have an interesting contrast to them. In Aliens (well, it goes for the whole series, but Cameron only directed the one), there's what you can almost describe as an anti-environmentalist tone to it. It's the company that wants to keep the aliens alive, albeit to exploit them, whereas Ripley, the marines, and everyone else is in the extermination boat, without question. It's not really an unrealistic response, give the nature of the xenomorph life cycle. But killing humans isn't strictly required for their survival, that's just what they had on hand. They're certainly dangerous and unpleasant, but they're also an alien species. They're portrayed as intelligent, but not sentient or sapient, so giving them a negative judgement based on human morality seems a little out of place. They're considered abominable monsters by anyone with a moral leg to stand on and the Nuke 'Em option is accepted without remorse by everyone but the Corrupt Corporate Executive.
I'm not saying I'd disagree. Were I in the situation, I'd probably be in the Kill It with Fire camp, too. My point is how it's oppositional to the view that Avatar represents. Kind of makes me wonder what Aliens would be like if the xenomorphs were blue cat people, or what Avatar would be like if the navi reproduced via face hugger. It also makes me think someone should do some clever video editing, using Sigourney Weaver's lines from Aliens inserted into scenes from Avatar. Because nuking hometree from orbit is the only way to be sure.
Also, does anyone else find it hilarious that the vatican reviews movies?
edited 13th Jan '10 7:28:28 PM by Stranger

I just found this: A link
. :D