Jojo's Bizarre Adventure

...You know, I feel like what might have helped me to up my opinion of Vento Aureo, even though I already really liked it to begin with, was reading (or rather, listening to an audiobook of) Purple Haze Feedback. I'm curious; has anyone in this thread read it? Because it's genuinely amazing with how well it ties together Vento Aureo's world in a way that hadn't been done before.

I legit feel that Feedback deserves an OVA. It deserves to be treated like the continuation of the story that it is.

I guess I'm just so used to seeing people more or less go "It's Jojo's so things that I would consider bad writing in literally anything else don't matter" I'm a bit surprised there's apparently a limit.

But then again, I know very little about Parts 6 and beyond.

I mean, there's an art to Refuge in Audacity. Joseph hijacking a Nazi airliner out of nowhere? Rule of Cool and Rule of Funny combined. Okuyasu saying "fuck it" to death? He's dumb; he doesn't play by fate's rules. Jotaro one-shotting DIO, who was a considerable threat 100 years earlier? ...Meeeh, it doesn't really add up to something satisfying. Hayato setting up surveillance cameras on his family? Okay, we knew nothing about this kid prior to this tidbit. At least give us something to work off of. For Refuge in Audacity to work, what's presented should have a setup that's in-line with who is performing such a crazy act.

Hayato already had security cameras on his family, Kira was just that unlucky, their existence was part of the exposition on what kind of character he is. It's not super foreshadowed (aside from his parent's relationship clearly being rocky), but it's part of his character introduction so it's okay.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Mar 4th 2021 at 12:03:33 PM

DIO going down with one punch is justified because said punch was delivered to his Stand and shattered it. His Stand didn't share the same regenerative powers as him. And due to the way Stands are linked to their wielders, he was shattered as well.

Edited by M84 on Mar 5th 2021 at 3:07:25 AM

Your Stand is your Fighting Spirit. Literally, it is the part of your spirit, your soul, that wants to fight. If it dies, you die. DIO may be a vampire, but The World isn't. Throughout the fight, Jotaro attacks DIO directly and, despite doing massive damage, he survives and just regenerates it back. The solution is to instead attack The World, DIO's big glowing weak point. Can't regenerate from having a part of your soul destroyed.

Though IIRC they exposed his shattered remains to sunlight afterwards just to be safe.

And it just occurred to me that we probably don't need to be spoilering Part III material.

Edited by M84 on Mar 5th 2021 at 3:20:10 AM

You know, for as much as I feel Diamond is Unbreakable started to lose me once the Highway Star arc came around (only to rope me back in with Bites the Dust), I find it curious that I keep revisiting the topic of DiU because I love analyzing character motivations and psyches from that part. Just... why Diamond is Unbreakable, in particular? I guess character motivations are more clear-cut in the likes of Battle Tendency or Vento Aureo, but I could've easily made a case for analyzing Phantom Blood or Stardust Crusaders in that sense. There's just something about doing it for DiU that's so captivating, and I'm not sure what it is.

Totally not surprised Mark didn't like the ending of the Diavolo fight, but the reasoning he gave make me wonder if it's possible to get to the same plot points with a better narrative behind them.

The Diavolo fight does kind of break the pattern since unlike every other Jojo Big Bad, Diavolo didn't get a last minute power-up.

• Phantom Blood: Dio gets the ability to shoot blood from his eyes.

• Battle Tendency: Kars becomes the Ultimate Lifeform.

• Stardust Crusaders: DIO gets Joseph's blood allowing him to properly integrate with Jonathan's body.

• Diamond is Unbreakable: The Stand Arrow transforms Kira's Killer Queen into Killer Queen Bites the Dust.

And so on.

Edited by M84 on Mar 5th 2021 at 6:19:52 PM

Because King Crimson was already monstrously powerful to begin with; Araki probably understood giving another time villain a boost would be much.

I do like how its pointed how GER isn't a power-up for Giorno, but rather Gold Experience itself.

But yea, there is a limit; plot contrivances happen a lot in Jojo, but there's a certain way they need to be done to be palatable for the audience. Joseph doing crazy and over the top shit doesn't make much sense...but it's hella entertaining and fun, its designed to appeal to the reader's base instincts

Hayato's whole deal is just in-service of getting Kira exposed, and not much else. There's nothing really fun about it, it just serves as a means to an end.

The comments are once again going over how much of the story's themes Mark missed by glossing over everything but the bare bones plot structure. After watching the video again, I do see their point. The way Mark misses the point of the Rolling Stones arc especially is damning, because it encapsulates everything Golden Wind was doing from start to finish. He writes it off without getting why it's an important arc to end the story on.

Like, I don't even agree with his criticism of Gold Experience Requiem anymore now that this has been pointed out to me. If he simply stuck to its powers being overly convenient like everyone else I wouldn't care, but with his specific issues he exposes how much he missed that the story was about why Gio deserved the Arrow over Diavolo, why the story rewards not only those who never skip the necessary steps to reach their goals but rewards those to understand Fate and accept it instead of assuming they're above consequences. Abaccio's chat with his dead friend enforces this theme.

In short, I'm very disappointed by the quality of this review and hope Mark does better to understand the thematic writing of whatever he gets into in the future.

Yeah, I'll join in the crowd of those who never found golden wind's ending bad. while the pursuit of chariot requiem might be a bit lacking in terms of the "fight" structure, I love everything else after it and Very Melon did a good job at explaining things I couldn't quite put my finger on. It's a thematically cohesive ending that feels honestly pretty damn satisfying to see diavolo getting everything denied to him.

I think I found one of the comments is thinking of and I very much agrees with it's points.

" Abaccio's chat with his dead friend enforces this theme : by picking up all the pieces and doing things as they should be done, even if you aren't the one to pass down justice, the ones who follow you will pick up your legacy and carry it.

The entire thing about drugs is a metaphor for trying to ignore life's hurdles and reach a better state without properly earning them. It's a sickness overtaking Italy spread by the embodiment of the act, and giorno takes up the call to stop it."

Edited by Yumil on Mar 5th 2021 at 6:18:51 PM

. . Honestly, I know this is a hot take, but imo Part 6 has the best final battle of the parts, with 7 and 2 close behind.

looking over more at the comments, it makes me really appreciate that, funnily enough, the common memes about king crimson and GER's "It just works !" VS "NO IT FUCKING DOESN'T." very much encapsulates everything the part was trying to say.

Edited by Yumil on Mar 5th 2021 at 6:28:08 PM

I don't know if it's my favorite, but it's definitely up there. Jolyne being my favorite Jojo of the first universe helps. If we're counting the final battle as everything from C-Moon onward, that actually raises my opinion, I love the C-Moon portion of the final fight. Jolyne doesn't get a big win against Pucci, but I think people underestimate how much she contributes to the final battle. She is the main fighter against C-Moon, she's the last surviving fighter against Made in Heaven, and she saves Emporio and gives him Weather Report to defeat Pucci. I think people overrate Jotaro's involvement in Part 6's final battle. He has a role but in the end, it comes down to Jolyne, Weather, and Emporio.

You know, Yumil? ...I'm in the same boat there. Yes, I never took issue with Diavolo vs. GER, but I'll admit that chasing down Chariot Requiem never really did a whole lot for me.

You know, I find myself more invested in characterization and Stand powers in JoJo as opposed to battles themselves (probably because of how drawn-out Part 3 was), but I kinda want to lay out what I personally think are the best and worst battles from Parts 1-5.

{Best}

•Phantom Blood: Jonathan vs. Dio (Joestar Mansion) ~Runner-Up: Jonathan vs. Bruford

•Battle Tendency: Joseph vs. Ultimate Kars ~Runner-Up: Caesar vs. Wamuu

•Stardust Crusaders: Joseph & Avdol vs. Mariah ~Runner-Up: Polnareff & Iggy vs. Vanilla Ice

•Diamond is Unbreakable: Hayato vs. Bites the Dust ~Runner-Up: Koichi & Jotaro vs. Sheer Heart Attack

•Vento Aureo: Giorno & Mista vs. Ghiaccio ~Runner-Up: Trish vs. Notorious B.I.G

•Overall Favorite: Joseph vs. Ultimate Kars

{Worst}

•Phantom Blood: Baron Zeppeli vs. Jack the Ripper ~Runner-Up: Jonathan vs. Tarkus

•Battle Tendency: Joseph vs. Donovan ~Runner-Up: Joseph vs. Esidisi (Spike Pit)

•Stardust Crusaders: Polnareff vs. Alessi ~Runner-Up: Jotaro vs. Forever

•Diamond is Unbreakable: Josuke & Yuya vs. Terunosuke ~Runner-Up: Josuke vs. Highway Star

•Vento Aureo: Giorno vs. Baby Face ~Runner-Up: Mista vs. Sale

•Overall Worst: Polnareff vs. Alessi

Edited by RWBYraikou888 on Mar 8th 2021 at 4:49:55 AM

Part 1: Kid Jonathan vs Kid Dio. Vampires weren't all that interesting or memorable in hindsight.

Part 2: Joseph vs Esidisi. Caesar's fight was also really good, but Esidisi was just too fun a character to overlook.

Part 3: Oingo and Boingo. Part 3's standard fight format is pretty meh, so this and the D'Arby fights stand out the most for breaking the mold. And the Oingo and Boingo "fight" is right up there with Rohan's dice game as the peak of Jojo's comedy.

Part 4: Bites the Dust. Time plots are almost always fun, and Hayato having to defeat a Stand without a Stand of his own adds a lot to the tension and challenge of the fight. Honorable mention to the dice game list above and to the Rock Paper Scissors fight for the Mundane Made Awesome factor.

Part 5: The Grateful Dead. Sticky Fingers already proved itself the most interesting Stand up to its point in it's fight against Giorno, and the fight here gives an even better showing. But of course, the shining gem of this fight is the charisma of the enemy pair, most importantly in Pesci unexpected growth moments.

Part 6 and overall best: Heavy Weather. It contains the backstory that cemented Pucci as my favorite character and Stone Ocean as my favorite part, which is enough to earn this position, but as a bonus, it also cemented Weather Report as my favorite Stand by reaching unmatched levels of Jojo insanity, using a weather-controlling power to manipulate the ozone layer to filter sunlight in a way that produces subliminal messages.

Part 7: Catch The Rainbow. Absurdly creative Stand, sympathetic and charismatic villain, and unexpected win from a character expected to be a damsel in distress. Tubular Bells does former better by almost killing the heroes with balloon animals, High Voltage does latter better, but only Catch The Rainbow does it all. Honorable mention to Scary Monsters for containing the sentence "The dinosaurs were extinct because they were stupid and didn't respect the earth".

Part 8: Hato Brought Her Boyfriend Home. What can I say, Damo was a Disc-One Final Boss that really, honestly felt like a final boss. Honorable mention to Oujirou Again for best reuse of a Starter Villain and Doctor Wu And Awaking 3 Leaves for giving the proper gravitas to Wu's constant "Wu Tomoki never fails".

You know, it's weird. When Speedwagon served as the designated Super-Detailed Fight Narration, I loved him for it, but when Hayato did the same thing later on, I hated him for it. ...I guess I do consider Speedwagon an extremely charismatic character while I found Hayato extremely flat, but I'm a little confused as to what the two of them did differently in their narration.

I rarely see this ever talked about, so I don't know if I'm alone in this opinion, but... I genuinely hate Dio as a villain. It doesn't matter if he's Dio Brando or DIO, I outright hate him. As early on as Phantom Blood, yes, you can make the argument that Dario was an abusive parent, but as Speedwagon said from his scent instinct he picked up off the streets, Dio would've been corrupt no matter how he was raised. In Part 1, I can liken Dio to Lusamine from Pokémon Sun and Moon. He's too much of a villainous person. For me to like a villain, they either have to be Love to Hate material, or they have to have some sort of depth to them that makes me get behind why they do these evil acts, even if they're not meant to be sympathetic. With Dio, he fills neither of these check marks, and instead does heinous acts conscientiously just because. I mean, sure, he initially wanted to inherit the Joestar fortune, but then he shifted into world domination once he turned into a vampire, and for what reason? ...Who the hell knows? And I'm someone who never found his evil deeds charming or charismatic like most people say; I found it annoying and infuriating. Then we get to Stardust Crusaders, and he goes from being too much of a villain to barely being a villain at all. Rule of thumb, but Orcus on His Throne villains, 9 times out of 10, always end up feeling boring to me. It's why I didn't care for Risotto or Diavolo once Part 5 rolled around. And unfortunately, that's all I see DIO as in this part. And for as flashy as the fight is against him, I've already said my piece plenty of times as to why I saw his defeat as pure Anti-Climax Boss material compared to how stubborn and resilient he was in Part 1. It did absolutely no favors to improve my opinion of him. And I know that Stone Ocean would attempt to humanize him through his idea of "Heaven", but doesn't that feel like too little, too late? I mean, how can he say that he wants what's best for everyone when he had no qualms turning an innocent mother into a vampire to devour her son, or brutalizing a cat literally out of nowhere after activating The World? I'm sorry, but I just absolutely hate Dio. He's unmotivated, he's callous, and I don't see him as charming like most people do.

Edited by RWBYraikou888 on Mar 9th 2021 at 3:25:47 PM

"And I know that Stone Ocean would attempt to humanize him through his idea of "Heaven", but doesn't that feel like too little, too late?"

This is probably just Fanon on my part, but I think that could be taken as another one of Dio's machinations. Pucci, even if Dio did respect him, even like him to an extent, ultimately saw him as another pawn piece. A tool. A backup plan should his attempts to personally extinguish the Joestar bloodline fail. If Dio fails, Pucci will succeed for him.

We only ever saw Part 6 Dio from the perspective of Pucci, who is, at best, a religious fanatic with plenty of family issues. Another in a long line of people seduced and used by Dio. Enya died knowing he wanted her death, and still refused to go against him. Every time Dio is beaten, or receives a powerup, his façade of an introspective, thoughtful gentleman is shattered to pieces. He's just a thug with delusions of grandeur and the ability to con people.

Pucci never saw that. Jonathan and Jotaro did.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you kind of misunderstood DIO if you hate him for his lack of depth...when that's kind of the point?

DIO is meant to serve as the villainous foil to the heroic Joestars. He's the ultimate evil that the heroes have to go against to save the day, you're not supposed to sympathize with him and he's not really meant to have depth. He's a Classic Villain down to his core. All of his sophistry is bullshit, he's just a dude hyped up on his own power.

In short, DIO is shallow by design, its not a flaw.

Now if that isn't type of villain that you personally like that's another story....but then why the hell are you reading Jojo for character depth. Most of Jojo's villains are pretty shallow in the villainous department; Even someone like Pucci was mostly taken in by DIO's bullshit than actually having a legitimate motive or point.

At heart all of the Jojo Big Bad villains are utterly selfish monsters who take It's All About Me Up To Eleven. They aren't any deeper than that, by design.

Edited by M84 on Mar 10th 2021 at 1:54:08 AM