"I find to compress "Old Games" and "New Games" as if the medium output was some uniform mass to be pretty fucking stupid."
Just like lumping "core" and "casual" games into a big mass. It leads to this notion of assuming one in each group is as good as the other, as if Dead Space Extraction' was just like Grand Theft Auto San Andreas''.
"Trying to use "age" as if it in any way an objective factor is short-sighted elitism."
Not to mention most criticism for other media seem to do it in reverse. But yeah, I agree age is irrelevant to quality (Values Dissonance is another matter).
edited 4th Oct '10 6:39:59 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.Ah, but what about their opinions? Many people were brave in the face of adversity but otherwise thought as closed-minded and prejudged as their peers. Are they heroes still? To many people now, that would only be if they attempt to excuse what was common at the time.
It's not like people are definitely better heroes or better people now due to having more knowledge or and newer opinions. We may be smarter now, but due to circumstance, does it really make us better?
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. With the exception of doujin games, I often don't waste my time with short games. They're usually just as expensive as the long games as well.
And replay value doesn't mean as much when you consider the fact that you already played through the main story. Most of the time, the most epic parts have been passed already. Unless the game changes dramatically, with new storylines and bosses and all, chances are, the replays get less and less fun, in the end you're only unlocking a few extra scraps as "reward".
For example, what's the point of replaying Portal?? (which in my opinion...is kinda overrated, I only liked one aspect of the game, and it's that song)
And one of the reasons I skipped Mad World, asides from a number of other reasons, is also because of it's short playtime.
You're forgetting a lot of exceptions. Rock Man games say hi. Etrian Odyssey say hi. A number of other games says hi.
NO(for the most part). Your other points have some merits here and there despite holes. But THIS...No. Just... No (for the most part). This only applies if you talk about old old games like Pong and Tetris that have no stories, or enough memory to hold stories. But the quality of stories haven't changed much, some got slightly better, some go slightly worse. But story quality (as subjective as it is) has remained pretty much static for several years.
"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."^ The word "nostalgia" lights up in huge neon letters when applied to those games.
And big fat fucking no to you refuting storytelling. Lets take three recent examples - Uncharted 2, Batman Arkham Asylumn, and Red Dead Redemption. The characters are some of the most well developed, as well as the most likeable, the pacing is at its peak with us never given a moment to grow bored with the story, the story can unfold within gameplay....what, exactly, isn't leagues better?
By contrast, we have a fat italian with no depth, rescuing a princess we don't care about in a story that doesn't move in the slightest between the beginingg and the end.
edited 4th Oct '10 7:30:14 PM by Indigo_Dingo
I wasn't exactly talking about 9 and 10 for Rock Man, and having never played ANY Wizardry titles before, I gotta disagree about Etrian Odyssey being there for nostalgia. Hell, I highly doubt a large portion of the fanbase even know what Wizardry or it's ilk even is.
"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."Bayonetta: I don't want to play as a girl.
You know, the negative stereotypes about gamers are NOT going to go anywhere as long as certain sects of the subculture insist on perpetuating them.
Final Fantasy X: I don't want to play an online game.
...yes. Final Fantasy X.
I nearly cried.
edited 4th Oct '10 7:35:52 PM by Rebochan
You know, the negative stereotypes about gamers are NOT going to go anywhere as long as certain sects of the subculture insist on perpetuating them.
...Why were you discussing Bayonetta with a twelve year-old?
...yes. Final Fantasy X.
I nearly cried.
Either you just made that up on the spot, or he meant XI. or XII
Please?
edited 4th Oct '10 7:58:13 PM by SpellBlade
Hey, 12 year olds like boobs too, don't compare 12 year olds to people like those.
edited 4th Oct '10 7:59:05 PM by Signed
"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."Whoa whoa whoa guys.
I am going to have to come down here. Come down like a big fat mallet of debating justice. And say right now that I am totally with Indigo.
Or I would be if he wasn't such a liver-bellied, kidney-faced, yellow moderate.
Progress is the be all end all in gaming. This has been, obviously, conclusively proven, and all games that come in the future are better.
And that is why I say to you now that limiting this viewpoint onto so-called retro games is an exercise in fecklessness. Fecklessness is a fun word to say too. But that is not the point! The point is that progress should be stretched wider, as if it were a giant cord of silly putty. If retro games are inferior because they are old, we must also conclude that modern games are inferior because they will be old.
Case in point: I have never played Red Dead Redemption. But if I had, I would be forced to conclude that it was a boring piece of trash, having aged drastically throughout the seconds it has been out. I mean, really, Red Dead Redemption 4: Cowboahs and Injuns, a game which I am quite certain in my head will exist one day, is a far superior game. It is of course blindingly obvious that its method of telling a story within a story, framing both within a children's game, is vastly superior than the typical method of voiced dialogue. Particularly when advanced technology beams the story directly into your brain and stimulates your emotional parts to make you react to every twist as if you were THERE. Its sandbox model is vastly inferior to RDR 4's model of mounting onto a motion-sensing stick pony and galloping around with reckless abandon to simulate the experience of riding on a real horsie, if that horsie was a stick. And third-person shooting? This is far outmatched by how Cowboys and Injuns will allow you to actually shoot bullets into your television and feel the actual recoil of a gun in your sweaty, cheese snack drenched fist.
It's all well and good to enjoy a game, but when it comes out and you act like it's fun, especially when it's been years, you are all being blind to the truth that progress = enjoyment. And progress marches on like a rabid drummer boy, heedless of the infants he is squishing with his unfathomable, spastic march.
"People are calling me stupid on the internet."Meh. I find that age is irrelevant to enjoyment. I recently replayed Donkey Kong Country 2, and had a lot of fun despite how old it is. Sure, newer games have far more advancements, but not as much as you'd think, and they aren't necessarily enjoyable ones. Sometimes simple controls and a simple plot can beat out a complicated and overwrought one.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!^ What would you say about games that simply don't seem to age? I mean, what about stuff like Ikaruga, it's a 9-year old shmup that has had minimal control and aesthetic changes between all of its releases, and it's still hailed as one of the best games in its genre. And then you've got stuff like Paper Mario, MOTHER (though one could argue that the first hasn't aged as well as the other two...), and Jet Set Radio... Old games are able to stand on their own merits long after their releases at times, it's just that it's not very common for them to do so...
edited 4th Oct '10 10:10:33 PM by CaptainNapalm
Let's play a game about Pokémon...^ I see, and what exactly are you comparing their "suckiness" and "poor aging" to? It's not exactly as if there's a ton of other games out there in their molds that have come out recently...
edited 4th Oct '10 10:16:22 PM by CaptainNapalm
Let's play a game about Pokémon...^^^^^: Arguing? Who's arguing here? Sir, I believe you need to learn to read motivations. Otherwise, your words are as empty as your soul.
I am simply supporting the extremely verifiable, highly factual, not even remotely stupid or pointless argument that old games are inferior to new ones, just as you have. But unlike you, I am like a speedy elevator, taking it to the next level. This is why I have the foresight to submit that current games are inferior to future ones. Your assertion that I am "taking your argument to absurd extremes" is silly. Silly and wrong. Wrong like nostalgia. Wrong like old games. Wrong like right.
Perhaps had I phrased my point more succinctly by saying something to the effect of "Yeah, because being new worked so incredibly well for <insert game here>," you would be more impressed with my argument's validity?
But I am digressing here. Let me help you understand what I'm saying, as it is clear you are being led astray. It is true that a modern car is better than a Model T. Similarly, the car of the future that comes with jetpacks, maintains your dental hygiene, and has a blackjack table in the back is superior to both the model car, and the Model T. In such a fashion as the car of the future renders all cars before it inferior, so too does Halo: Mister Fantastic Stretchy Arm outdo Halo: Reach.
I submit, sir, that you have a pre-active nostalgia for the games which you are currently playing, and it would be better for you to remove the illusion you are under. I, for one, am already in the future, calling all modern games inferior relics. This is where all of gaming should be, spitting on its history, much as I am hocking a figurative loogie on all of you silly people.
edited 4th Oct '10 10:20:28 PM by DrPravd
"People are calling me stupid on the internet."^x3 Yeah, that's not exactly an apt comparison my friend. Paper Mario isn't (and hasn't ever been) considered a conventional JRPG by any stretch of the imagination, so knocking it for not playing like newer JRPGs is a bit of a non-starter. Also, of all of the graffiti games out there beyond JSR (which IIRC is pretty much non-existent beyond a poorly received Marc Ecko game), how many of them manage to wed better gameplay with a comparable setting (no, having bloody and gory real-brown cities is not the same as having amazing technicolor cel-shaded cities where I eat bullets without much more than a little knockback...)?
You're welcome to disagree, but I think that you're just a little too much under the sway of "Ooh, new and shiny!"
edited 4th Oct '10 10:33:42 PM by CaptainNapalm
Let's play a game about Pokémon...I am right-handed, and I even think it's dumb that Nintendo couldn't have programed right and left-handed controls into Twilight Princess Wii. Considering a lot of the game could be better in general, the extra time worked on it didn't seem to pay off.
Of course, I prefer the Gamecube version, though.
I hope they realize the mistake and fix it for Skyward Sword.
Quest 64 thread

No, the Oddysey would be the horse and cart.
edited 4th Oct '10 6:33:39 PM by Indigo_Dingo