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Eh. Either way... the fatherly main is, to me, not "ridiculously beefy." He's built like a blacksmith, which is what you'd expect of someone wielding the weapons he does. I also feel that the idea of a father looking after his daughter is a nice touch, and rife with potential, while the teenage brother doing the same thing is annoying on a huge number of levels, not the least of which being that he gets the superpowers while she gets to slowly die — thanks, Japan.
I may have to reserve final judgement until I play through it on my own — and that'll have to wait until I have a decent TV, as standard def doesn't do modern games justice. But as it stands, I like the visual style, and I love the music and voice acting.
I continue to feel baffled by claims that the art style is "dated," as putting this game alongside other titles, the only thing I see that hurts it is a limited palette. This was intentional. I'm left wondering if the same people would have docked Shadow Of The Colossus on its graphics for being "washed out greens and grays."
I doubt people would criticize Shadow Of Colossus for the same reasons as this game...considering their ages and all.
It's probably not true, but I have a theory that Shadow Of Colossus was the game the popularized the whole Real Is Brown and games lacking lots of color that is so overdone these days. Of course, my reasoning is that So C is the oldest game I can remember that did this, and that a lot of games didn't use that style until some time after So C came out.
...you're gonna have to elaborate. As a person with a sister in real life, I can see myself doing whatever it takes to save her. And if anyone say that is annoying, I'm going to make sure they get violated by a horse.
Plus, I'm sure the guy getting powers and girl dying is for the sake of gameplay and story respectively...not quite sure why you potholed Double Standard.
As a side note, I wouldn't mind if they scrapped the idea of sick daughter/sister and oldMan/youngMan protagonsit altogether. Know what I want? Hot Shounen Mom running around kicking ass to save her Cute Shotaro Boy son.
Or hell, an Ass-kicking granny trying to raise money by killing evil monsters and thieves to by medicine for her grandchild.
You want something new, howabout THAT?! (either the hot mom, or the unrealistically old and crippled granny that still kicks ass physically)
edited 5th Oct '10 7:15:02 PM by Signed
That would be neat. But no, the problem is that, real as it may be for a brother to care for a sister (or vice versa)... the teenage boy who goes out and saves the world is a very common thing. Also it's implied in what little I've seen from in-game footage that Nier's dark powers and Yonah's illness come from the same source, or at least a similar one. This is suggested to me by the prologue sequence where she admits to having touched the book, and her condition's worsened as a result.
If the father is older and more mature than the daughter, I can allow myself to consider it just a matter of a maturity difference. If the brother and daughter are nearly the same age, as in RepliCant, and the same thing happens, I don't get annoyed. I get enraged. Your own opinion may vary on this, but it comes across to me as yet another "You can't do anything to fight against the darkness because you're a girl" kind of thing, and that's all too common.
edited 5th Oct '10 7:27:28 PM by GoggleFox
Oh, it's another of those gender equality issues like in Other M...I try to ignore minor details like those, or else there will be plenty of games I can not enjoy.
And perhaps the brother didn't get inflicted with an illness because it's sort of like a jackpot or coinflip...or perhaps the brother is just naturally more fit than the girl is, who knows. I'll go with the coinflip theory.
The only conclusion I come with is, regardless of which Nier came first, lets hope that we never have people like the ones in Los Angeles ever have a say in games ever again, atleast japanese games. Or japanese developers realizing that it's a bad idea listening to those people's words.
edited 5th Oct '10 7:31:22 PM by Signed
It's explained by the plot, their situations are very different.
VERY different. It is absolutely nothing like "Both have contact with the same source, he gets superpowers while she dies."
He gets superpowers from a DIFFERENT source, looking for the superpowers he needs to save her from dying.
It's complicated. Square Enix likes complicated.
edited 5th Oct '10 8:32:44 PM by TobiasDrake
Correction. Cavia liked complicated. Squeenix is just the publisher, they didn't develop the game.
Poor Cavia. :(
Meanwhile, your spoiler doesn't really spoil that much, as I'd assume that would be given away almost straight out in the first half hour of gameplay, but it's good to know.
Well...Squeenix likes their complicated plots too...depending on what you define complicated as.
Look at Kingdom Hearts...some of them requires you to play multiple games to understand fully, or pay close attention to what's happening in certain scenes.
edited 5th Oct '10 8:38:22 PM by Signed
I look away and suddenly people are talking about Nier! I was freaking obsessed with this game when it first came out.
...and reading the developer's commentary is hilarious. Enlightening storywise, but mainly hilarious. One mentions running around the fields with younger Nier just to look at the Zettai Ryouiki. And then their son came by and ruined the mood by mentioning the back door and already been opened.
edited 5th Oct '10 9:54:21 PM by Bur
Yeah... I kinda bumped the thread after picking up my own copy. Once I found out about this game, it somehow spoke to me.
Why did the marketing fail so much for this? Another odd example: the cover for the game in America is useless. The screenshots are bland and unappealing, and tiny, and the taglines are boring and uninspiring. The front cover is your generic "bunch of characters standing in front of something the graphic artist threw together."
Compare that to this.◊ This should be my cover. At least it's on the manual's cover...
Totally agreed. I only picked it up because I heard it was by Cavia. "Cavia?" I said to myself, "The same Cavia who put an eater of children, a pedophile, and a small child in the same party Cavia? Oh I have to get this." Would have probably passed it over otherwise.
edited 5th Oct '10 10:01:32 PM by Bur
I'm pretty sure Replicant came first, the article linked in the wiki and which was also your first article didn't carry a statement as to which was made first, just that he thought Replicant would be better for eastern auidences, the US and EU apparently pulled the "Sword-is-too-big-card" and the JP team argued the decision for change would dishearten them, which is why we have Rep. and Ges., Signed's article pretty much corroborates this as does these.
Anyway, I think a brother or father searching to save their sister or daughter respectively is pretty much on the same level, even on usage terms.
Edit: And actually I think while the models were up to par, for the characters it could've done them more justice, in Signed's article there is a picture of a drawn Muscle-Nier who looks quite Badass, while it is in my opinion that Game-Nier looks like Gary Busey on steroids.
edited 5th Oct '10 10:20:58 PM by WORLDTree
All this leads me to think.....Americans. Do. Not. Understand. Rule of Cool.
And here I am forced to call bullshit.
They just have a different Rule of Cool that does not involve oversized swords. As much.
edited 5th Oct '10 11:49:01 PM by Clarste
There we go.
I know, in a game about talking books, magic black liquid, giant monsters, and a futanari dual-wielding amazon, one dude apparently can't just use some arbitrary spell or enhancement to wield, what in game are weapons which are not all huge considering the amount you can equip. In fact, why the HELL does nobody complain about Kaine, her swords are freaking HUGE, and she TWO of them, DUAL-WIELDING, and she's just as skinny as Replicant Nier, why does nobody toss crap at her!
I think people were trying to concentrate their gaze on her crotch...but yeah, I ask that all the time too. But when I do, the thread would just die, and question unanswered.
edited 6th Oct '10 12:36:57 AM by Signed
One, all three... no, if you count Signed's post, all four of those are actually just one source. They all cite the same interview. Unfortunately for you, the interview is in Japanese. It does solidify the idea that the Japanese-only version came first, so kudos, I guess?
You're also missing the point because the marketing was completely nonexistent. Regardless of protagonist, people would have bought the game more if SE had cared to actually promote the damned thing outside Japan for even five seconds.
Finally, Nobody cares. Enjoy the game as it is and stop bickering about which boy's better. Some are going to prefer one over the other. I clearly disagree with you on it, but whatever. Go play.
edited 6th Oct '10 8:17:33 AM by GoggleFox
Does Kaine flirt with both incarnations, or just the prettyboy?
She falls for both of 'em.
She also seems, um...very close to Emil.
It's supposed to be a brotherly/sisterly kind of thing, but it gets very close to that line on a few occasions.
It's an orgy waiting to happen.
The developers also joked about Nier having a harem of admirers, none of whom were entirely female or human.
Would someone please tell RPG designers everywhere that the whole "grind for seven hours to get a 1 in 10 million drop" thing stopped being fun somewhere around always?
Grinding for materials for weapon upgrades is blegh.
edited 6th Oct '10 4:29:32 PM by TobiasDrake
Well, to be fair, you really don't need those hard to smith weapons most of the time with RPGs these days.
Having an easier to make but still powerful weapon and comparing it to 1 in a million legendary sword, you won't see too much of a difference, atleast enough to affect gameplay that much. Plus the step behind ultimate sword is always a whole lot easier to acquire too.
That said, every game is different, but that's the trend I've seen.
So in the end, that Infinity Plus One legendary sword is only there for Bragging Rights Reward, and if they made it easier to get, then what's there to brag about?
edited 6th Oct '10 5:51:07 PM by Signed
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