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Nier

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SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#3326: Jan 8th 2023 at 3:04:28 PM

Gotta get everything done so it doesn't matter if your save goes boom.

Edited by SilentColossus on Jan 8th 2023 at 6:09:02 AM

Lyendith Since: Mar, 2011
#3327: Jan 8th 2023 at 3:32:09 PM

Oh, they weren't kidding about deleting all my save info.

Fuck.

Welcome to the club. [lol] It wasn’t for lack of warning.

Mullon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#3328: Jan 8th 2023 at 4:20:34 PM

So in the end, it was all pointless? The humans are dead, and the aliens are dead, the machines are dead, and the little girl holograms who were manipulating everyone got what they wanted and peaced out, taking all the knowledge with them?

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
Lyendith Since: Mar, 2011
#3329: Jan 8th 2023 at 4:23:28 PM

Well no, since the Pods managed to preserve a little bit of hope at the very end.

SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#3330: Jan 8th 2023 at 5:04:50 PM

[up][up]

The machines aren't dead, I'm pretty sure. The network might have left but not the machines themselves.

Edited by SilentColossus on Jan 8th 2023 at 8:13:39 AM

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#3331: Jan 8th 2023 at 5:11:51 PM

The machines are still alive if you read some of the weapon profiles before it all got deleted.

Specifically details outside the game on the timeline even note a new machine network is created a few centuries later.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 8th 2023 at 5:12:27 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#3332: Jan 8th 2023 at 7:02:12 PM

The main trio are still alive, and it's possible there were survivors at the android camp too, if I recall.

It's been fun.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#3333: Jan 8th 2023 at 7:10:00 PM

[up] We know for sure from her last message that Jackass will be getting on the Council of Humanity's ass on the same level as, say, Symbiote Spider-Man getting on Shocker's ass that one time.

(That is to say, she intends to chase them to the ends of the earth and so on.)

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jan 8th 2023 at 10:11:07 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#3334: Jan 8th 2023 at 8:24:26 PM

It wasn't pointless. All of that struggle ultimately convinced the pods to screw their orders and grant the trio (and by extension the other Androids) freedom and a chance for a better life.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Mullon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#3335: Jan 9th 2023 at 9:41:30 AM

I was reading the plot of Nier, did The Last of Us rip Nier off?

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#3337: Jan 9th 2023 at 11:08:20 AM

Plots where the hero dooms the human race have been around a lot longer than Nier.

The legend has returned.
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#3338: Jan 9th 2023 at 11:10:44 AM

Nier was following Drakengard 1 endings where things got progressively worse with each new ending leading to Nier and then Automata.

Taro couldn’t even helped himself and from the sounds of it Drakengard 1.3 novels had the endings likewise be progressively worse too.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 9th 2023 at 11:11:41 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#3339: Jan 9th 2023 at 11:43:18 AM

Besides, what happens in either game is completely different.

Joel doesn't really doom humanity as rather he prevents humanity from recovering. Humanity is surviving in a zombie world, and there seems that they'll keep on surviving. Just not in societies like before. Joel is also aware of what he did: he just wasn't willing to sacrifice Ellie for a cure, whether Ellie was willing or not.

One of the doctors compares a vaccine for cordyceps as being like penicillin. It won't "save" humanity but it will save millions longterm.

Nier/the protagonist is just an ignorant fool who uses violence to solve everything related to Shades. I'm not even confident that he understands he is dooming humanity, including Yonah, to extinction by killing the Shadowlord.

Both are selfish and only care about their loved ones, but Nier seems much more willfully ignorant of everything around him.

Edited by SilentColossus on Jan 9th 2023 at 2:53:08 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#3340: Jan 9th 2023 at 5:22:25 PM

The last lines of the Weapon Stories for Virtuous Dignity and Cruel Arrogance highlight the inherent tragedy of Nier.

Virtuous Dignity, Level 4: "The fourth owner was a meek young boy who wanted to aid his sickly younger sister. He gave all to this cause - including his very existence and that of all else in the world."

Cruel Arrogance, Level 4: "The fourth owner was a simple, honest man who wanted to aid his sickly daughter. He gave all to this cause - including his very existence and that of all else in the world."

Neither version of Nier was a monster. But he managed to doom humanity anyway.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#3341: Jan 9th 2023 at 5:52:09 PM

I didn't find Nier to be that willfully ignorant until I played the remaster and actually bothered doing the sidequests. There's so many of them that hint towards the Shades having a deeper intellect or not exclusively having evil intentions (to the point the twist honestly becomes very telegraphed if you do them all) but literally every single time Nier isn't even willing to humor the possibility even for a second, because he's so wrapped up in his hatred for them and what he sees as the violation of his life and loved ones that he prefers to ignore the obvious.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Jan 9th 2023 at 10:52:53 AM

SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#3342: Jan 9th 2023 at 6:02:32 PM

There's a side quest where Nier finds out a little girl is trying to protect a small Shade (so, a child Shade) that she made friends with. She keeps lying about where she saw it. Everything suggests the Shade isn't going to hurt her and it just cowers when Nier finds it. He doesn't give a crap and murders it, saying that Shades and humans can never have peace.

There's also the Shade in Emil's library who is evidently just looking at books. It never defends itself aside from a powerful shield spell it casts.

Edit: But the biggest early game hint is that the smaller Shades generally will not attack Nier, because they're children. Later they often become aggressive on sight, either because they've relapsed or because they've heard about the dangerous Replicant.

IIRC, the only outright evil Shades are Hook and Tyrann. Shadowlord is just Nier, and just as violent and ignorant. Shadowlord is just as responsible for destroying the world as his own Replicant.

Edited by SilentColossus on Jan 9th 2023 at 9:11:29 AM

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#3343: Jan 9th 2023 at 6:11:22 PM

He spent half a decade getting real good at murdering Shade kids and adults, so yeah they now have every reason to try to kill on sight because they know he was never going to spare them.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 9th 2023 at 6:11:36 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#3344: Jan 9th 2023 at 6:21:09 PM

Some real I Am Legend vibes there.

Edited by M84 on Jan 9th 2023 at 10:22:25 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#3345: Jan 9th 2023 at 6:23:53 PM

Honestly it’s telling of how desperate the Aerie Shades were that even in spite of everything bad known about his murder sprees, they still wanted to try an olive branch so they could mend both sides.

Then they get his response and it all gets worse from there.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 9th 2023 at 6:24:29 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#3346: Jan 9th 2023 at 6:25:00 PM

It doesn't help that the people who do know what's going on and could tell Nier the truth don't, for reasons of their own.

Disgusted, but not surprised
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#3347: Jan 9th 2023 at 6:26:13 PM

And some of them know it wouldn’t change a thing.

The Twins sent him against our resident Little Mermaid in hopes of a Mercy Kill on him rather than fight him themselves.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#3348: Jan 9th 2023 at 6:28:55 PM

Which... didn't go as planned.

Edited by SilentColossus on Jan 9th 2023 at 9:31:39 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#3349: Jan 9th 2023 at 6:30:05 PM

After Gestalt!Nier took Replicant!Yonah, any chance that Nier would be able to sympathize with Gestalts was gone.

Disgusted, but not surprised
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#3350: Jan 9th 2023 at 6:30:20 PM

To be fair the first two routes she was every bit as OP as expected and it took Kaine taking a hostage to get the win. Even Emil couldn’t aggressively explod Magic at her to stop.

After all they planned on siccing her on the Shadowlord next to make him do what they want and save humanity.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 9th 2023 at 6:30:58 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

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