Harry Potter

http://easydamus.com/alignmenthpc.html

This is a very intriguing HP alignment chart, although I would place Voldemort as very much NE and not CE. He's too selfish to have any real ideas or philosophies beyond what benefits him most so both Law and Chaos are out.

I'd also almost be tempted to put Skeeter in one of the Evil squares.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jun 30th 2020 at 10:00:10 AM

I mean voldermoth is magical hitler and the nazi were very much CE, aside from that voldermort trust interest is inmortality.

"too selfish to have real ideas of philosophies beyond what benefits him most" is pretty Chaotic on the alignment chart tbf

Plus post resurrection at least he's extremely impulsive and short tempered which leads to him acting in ways that don't advance any of his agendas.

The Nazis, the inventors of totalitarianism where the government cotnrols every aspect of life, being CE is...a new take.

Chaos is a philosophy and commitment. Take Survival of the Fittest types who will gladly die if they prove unfit. That would be CE.

That's too much commitment for Voldemort. He violates his own principles when it serves him, like going after Harry instead of Neville. NE is always defined as pure selfishness as both Hitler and the Joker have principles they are committed to that would prevent them from maximizing their own gain.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jul 1st 2020 at 1:05:02 AM

Now there was a lot of theme seen I post, let me adress:

Aboyt slytherin:...yeah, they never really move beyond proto racist house to the point you the idea if they disband slytherin, it would be for the better.

About romance:.....meh? I find hilarious hermione and ron look stright of a tsudenre anime, which I think is why so people cant stand it because for many, people who bicker is because they dislike each other, is one of those "buy or leave" deal.

if im have to guess, people like harry/hermione because she feel more competent than ron, who often argue with harry for some reason, the movies dosent help that it make him look more like a jerk and give more vibe for the ship, the dance between the two all the suddent was like "...is this two gonna kiss"? but as other have said, harry does kinda see hermione as older sister: he need her and them he go with ron when he want fun, pretty standar stuff.

Now if hermione and ron look like tsundere couple, ginny is pretty much british hinata, she have a crush on him, then disapear, them she return all badass and them harry have a crush, it feel....off, part of that harry being the only pov(except when he is not) I cant fault fans for not like it, what I do fault them is to slut shame her in fanfics, dear lord....

James and Sirius: Now this is the thing its funny because it feel like invertion of the usual romance stuff: snape the underdog no only dosent get the girl but cut all conexion with her while James the rich jerk jock get have son, is a intersting subversion, maybe a little by unpleasent because as other said, at times he kinda cross as jerk who feel cockblock by snape.

Sirius: I think he is well remenber because he pull off a good impresion: he stay in azakaban for a crime he dosent commit and yet he still love harry, he have a motorcycle and is not a afraid of anything!, is hagrid is the affable uncle who give you stuff and hug you when it see you, Sirius come as ex rocket who see the world and fight the system.

Also...yeah that prank was stupid in nearly every level: snape would be dead, remus would be tramutized and out as werewolf, James could be expelled as himself which means he would prove to his racist family that he was a disapointment after all....why james or even better, lupin still talk to him is a godamn miracle, I would hex is ass for a year at the very least if was lupin.

Snape: boy, snape is....the best way I describe it, is a man yank by his impulse and clearly a mercy of is nature: he is resenfull and clearly never EVER forgive a slight against him, to the point one can said his biggest flaw who drive him is his inhability to let the past go: he hate james potter for bully him and getting away with lilly, he hate himself for losing her and being incapable of protecting her, he hate potter for looking like him and yet he protect him because he also look like her, it also spend years serving the man who kill her without flitching once but he is also a sadist teacher because he crave the power he feel never had over others and other have to him.

.....Snape really need a therapist, probably several, he is a mess of a person.

And about if snape was racist: the answer is yes but not, he dosenr seen to be a ideologe about blood purity, I mean james was "Pure" and he was his tormentor, what he wanted is power and to payback what other did to him, also a love for magic for is own sake, to the point he have a downright creepy fasination for the dark arts, Snape is pretty much the clasic and gothic incarnation of the dark wizard instead of a magical nazis like the others.

You don't have to be ideologically committed to the concept or principles of Chaos to be considered on the Chaotic side of the alignment chart, just consistently giving zero shits about following anyone's rules or societal expectations to achieve your goals is enough to be considered Chaotic. Voldemort was fine with using existing structures (such as his takeover of the Ministry) to achieve his goals, which is where I can see the main argument for Neutral Evil, but when it comes to his personal goals for himself and the lengths he would go to to break the greatest facet of "natural order", which would be the inevitability of death, then there's no rule he was unwilling to break, no ally he was unwilling to betray, no taboo a step too far. That's way more Chaotic than Neutral.

Adhering to some kind of Law of the Jungle, Dog Eat Dog, Survival of the Fittest ideology could be considered just as much Lawful as Chaotic, becuase they're adhering to a self-imposed code of some kind, which is consistent with the Lawful alignment.

Also, the Nazis... weren't the inventors of totalitarianism or the first people to be referred to as "totalitarian", which is a minor quibble, but I had to get it out.

One can said darwianian can also fit chaotic but it also depends: it is "I rule, you obey" is lawfull, is more "I hack you because im superior and I can do what I want" is chaotic.

And boy the nazis were chaotic as hell.

Besides, it's not like Fascism was ever the most coherent ideology. By design.

Fascists tend to like to project the image of being all about order and might, that's what the propoganda shoots of the Nuremberg rallies were all about after all, but any deep dive look at how Nazi Germany actually functioned shows a slightly different story. And while they might be acting within a consistent ideology/motivation, that doesn't mean the're necessarily Lawful in their actions, even if they're the ones who make the laws. The point of the Lawful side of the alignment chart is really whether people are constrained by some code or principle.

Which Voldemort was clearly and definitely NOT. He'd use rules and order (whether his own or another system he was hijacking or manipulating like the Ministry) if that was helpful to him but he'd completely ignore them if he felt like it. Making a horcrux is apparently a horribly taboo act and has ethical and moral ramifications well beyond the legal ones, it's literally wrong on many levels and in multiple ways, but he's the one wizard in known history to make more than one - because that helped his aims.

@Golden Kaos

Most historians I've read agree Mussolini's Italy was never totalitarian any more than it made the trains run on time. These were boasts and propaganda that never manifested into reality.

It was the Nazis who actually implemented such vast, sweeping policies to control every aspect of German life in a pretty unheard of way.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jul 1st 2020 at 11:01:44 AM

Lawfull evil more often that not means: subyugating others, creating a law for making people worst and follow evil rule because they are rules.

facisism in general love for violence is so great they put it ahead of their own rules.

One can said stalin soviet union is better express as lawfull evil.

Well Stalin's massacres did have a pragmatic purpose, all those farmers he killed was for modernizing Russia.

Hitler's genocide was motivated by racism.

Re-watching and rereading GOF and I'm remembering how Barty Crouch Jr. used to have a lot of sympathizers on this forum.

The book and especially movie treat him like a total monster but for some reason he had a lot of people who felt sorry for him.

I'm genuinely happy that we share the common consensus that fascism is evil by default...though maybe I'm exaggerating things and it's Nazism with that logo. But of course they're the ones most associated with it.

I thought people felt bad for Barty because getting your soul sucked out kinda sucks. Was there some other reason?

They believed his "begging" in his flashback appearance?

He impersonated Moody really well and was kinda awesome during it. Heck, the only real reason we know Moody’s own personality at all is that Barty matched it well enough to fool Dumbledore and everyone else who knew him. We don’t see all that much of the real Mad-Eye.

I found a really good post-series fanfic about Hermione and a Remembrall.

This is not the "bash JK Rowling" thread, just saying.

Criticism =/= bashing.

You seem to be digging up the topic for the sole purpose of having others bash Rowling, though.

No, I'm asking people how they're coping with a development that's been on every Potter fan's mind for weeks. That's not an invitation to bash anyone, though, again, criticism and expressions of disappointment aren't bashing.