Seeing a lot of good posts about why Snape was the best written character in the franchise, full of many different layers and complexity. I approve.
@Kickisan
Probably because Snape helped protect Harry's future wife/Al's mother from harm and also was instrumental in bringing the world Al lives in into being.
Like Harry sais, Snape was the bravest man he ever knew.
Edited by Nikkolas on Jun 30th 2020 at 2:35:59 AM
Oh, bother.
These posts have been about what a horrible human being Snape was, even if he was also a brave man who died stopping Voldemort.
If that's your definition of good character writing...
It doesn't help that most of his depth isn't revealed until the last book and most of it through flashbacks. That's not really a good way to reveal someone's Hidden Depths.
He wasn't that complex, really. He was always just an asshole who really loved Lily.
Harry named his son after Snape because Harry's just that nice and forgiving. Let's not forget that Harry in the books wanted to help Voldemort after seeing what his fate will be in the afterlife. Even after everything Tom had done, Harry still didn't want to wish an eternity as a twisted powerless thing on Tom.
Honestly, if Snape had stopped projecting James onto Harry for one damn second, he'd have noticed that Harry's personality was a lot closer to Lily's.
Edited by M84 on Jun 30th 2020 at 5:53:56 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Probably because Snape helped protect Harry's future wife/Al's mother from harm and also was instrumental in bringing the world Al lives in into being.
Like Harry said, Snape was the bravest man he ever knew.
Captain of the Dead City
Yeah, I get the feeling that writers really want to rehabilitate their own horrible creations sometimes, no matter how much they actually earned that rehabilitation. If Snape had survived to repent properly for what he had done and how he had acted, then I can see justify his "he was good all along" ending. Being a double agent against Voldemort for almost 20 years and protecting Harry might get him retribution points for serving under Voldy and causing Lilly and James's death, if you don't account for the fact that there's a very selfish reading of his motivations in there as well, which was that his love for Lilly had always been greater than his loyalty to Voldemort, and he never "switched sides" from that perspective, he simply had never had to make a hard choice between one or the other before Godric's Hollow. It wasn't as much of an act of repentance as it was continuing to act upon his own long-held feelings and motivations. He was an asshole as a Death Eater, and he was an asshole as a member of the Order, he just switched because Voldy did kicked the one dog that would guarantee him switching sides.
And nothing he did hints that he was remorseful for his time as a Death Eater, his bigoted views, or his abusive treatment of the pupils under his care. He's very much the Token Evil Teammate of the Order and of the Hogwarts faculty, with emphasis on the Evil bit. Him being in love (which is one of the series' main themes, and one of the ways it tends to symbolise the good guys from the bad guys) as his motivation for fighting the Big Bad doesn't magically make that all ok. Him being a good soldier in the war against Voldemort doesn't make it a net gain that he was a shitty human being all his life who always acted for himself regardless of the hurt he caused others.
Edited by GoldenKaos on Jun 30th 2020 at 2:10:01 PM
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Mistakes Were Made
Think there's a generous read that Snape doesn't have blood prejudice as an adult. He shouted at Phineas when the latter called Hermione a Mudblood and never used blood status as a means of attack.
Still a dick, but at least there's that.
Edited by Cross on Jun 30th 2020 at 9:42:45 AM
‘My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’
He seemed to base his attacks on which house you belonged to instead, which is not one bit better.
Edited by Kickisan on Jun 30th 2020 at 12:39:49 PM
Oh, bother.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Though that might have more to do with the personal bad memories associated with that slur, since calling Lilly "Mudblood" was what destroyed his relationship with her.
Mistakes Were Made
Said it was a generous read. As is, I'm not sure how much Snape fell into the blood purity ideology since the story focuses more on his lusts.
‘My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’
Oh, bother.
Like Tom, I think he did harbor some genuine hatred for Muggle-borns. Also like Tom, it was probably rooted in projected hatred for his father.
One doesn't use a racial slur like he did unless one has at least some genuine prejudice.
Edited by M84 on Jun 30th 2020 at 10:05:34 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Doctor of Doctorates
He arguably started out as a racist and ended up more of a general misanthrope. Not at all a better person but his anger and bitterness shifted focus somewhat. (Not that this excuses him of either.)
"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Captain of the Dead City
Not that there's much in the text to support that, his opinions on muggles and blood purity are hardly explored during his last seven years of life, he might be just as bigoted as when he joined the Death Eaters, but that he has learned to compartmentalise and put his crusade in Lilly's memory front and centre, and relegate his bigotry to private thoughts he dare not proclaim publicly. Like, I can't prove he still is a blood purist, but neither could I prove that he isn't, and I think any statement that gives and opinion or makes a claim either way is probably betraying bias.
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Team Rocket Boss.
Just saying bullying people based on houses is bound to give children toxic ideas when growing up.
Like the trio are conditioned to believe every Slytherin is evil. Hell, Rose Weasley cut ties with Albus because of his house.
We can thank a certain teacher for contributing.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 30th 2020 at 10:18:11 AM
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Makes you wonder why Hogwarts even kept Slytherin around at all, if it's got such a bad reputation.
But then the British wizard elites would have probably thrown a shitfit over the removal, considering how entranched Fantastic Racism is in wizard society.
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Jun 30th 2020 at 7:43:28 PM
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Of course people always forget to mention Snape's chosen title for himself was Half-Blood Prince, as in he was boasting of being not a pureblood while all Death Eaters pretend to be purebloods.
There's no real indication he was ever militantly about blood purity, only that the only friends he had (who would murder him in his sleep if he turned against them) felt a certain way and he wanted to be friendly with his friends.
Given decades of time passing and other major events, thre's really no reason to believe he still held onto views he was clearly never that attached to be in the first place.
Edited by Nikkolas on Jun 30th 2020 at 10:42:59 AM
Maybe Voldermort saw a kindred spirit in him for that reason.
I always got the feeling Snape had a much better rapport with him than most other Deatheaters.
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Jun 30th 2020 at 7:46:40 PM
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
But then the British wizard elites would have probably thrown a shitfit over the removal, considering how entranched Fantastic Racism is in wizard society.
Edited by Kickisan on Jun 30th 2020 at 5:04:37 PM
Captain of the Dead City
Him referring to himself as the Half-blood Prince doesn't really prove any aversion towards blood purity ideology given that the nickname deliberately takes the maiden name of his pure-blood mother rather than his own, derived from his muggle father.
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Team Rocket Boss.
Plus he never took credit for the identity.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Oh, bother.
And even if Snape never fully bought in to the blood purity stuff, the fact that he was willing to use a racial slur like that and downplay the bullying actions of his other more openly bigoted peers was telling.
It's pretty clear that at that time in his life, he was walking down the blood purity road.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Team Rocket Boss.
The optimist in me would like to think that Snape renounced it in honor of Lily, but i know that he only renounced it for what it cost him.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Oh, bother.
Which of course didn't stop Tom from killing him when he thought Snape was an obstacle. Though Tom did express some regret over it, which is more than he would have done for anyone else.
Edited by M84 on Jun 30th 2020 at 11:00:21 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Surrounded by weirdoes
Snape, due to the whole plan and the tendency of Harry and friends to be a real pain in No Nose's side, basically managed to sell himself as V's most valuable follower, especially given the string of failures the others had. He was convinced he was throwing away his best man, even if it could mean his complete victory.
Wake me up at your own risk.
Oh, bother.
It says something about what a pile of fail the other Death Eaters were that The Mole was considered the most competent agent.
It says something about how badly prepared the Wizarding World was that the Death Eaters managed to all but win anyway.
Disgusted, but not surprised
As I said before, that's partly because the Wizarding World wasn't completely opposed to what the Deatheaters were selling.
Wizard supremacy was pretty much baked into their culture - the main hall of their government had a statue celebrating wizards lording over everyone else.
Not to mention that you had people like Umbridge who not only survived the take-over, but thrived because of it.
Voldemort didn't just manage to take over because he's a scary dark wizard - he took over because there were enough people in the government who agreed with him.
You know, now I wonder why Grindelwald didn't just try to become Minister of Magic instead of basically going full terrorist.
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Jun 30th 2020 at 6:56:46 PM
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Snape's also a huge hypocrite when it came to school bullying. He never stopped hating James and Sirius for bullying him, but he always made excuses for his Slytherin friends' much worse bullying of others. Lily called him out on that.
Disgusted, but not surprised