Harry Potter

Even if Lily realized Snape was in love with her, that doesn't mean she's going to reciprocate in the same way. It seems likely she thought of him as just a good friend. And that's not even going into how she may have reacted once she realized he was getting mixed up in Death Eater stuff or if she felt he was being too pushy or clingy when she didn't reciprocate.

Edited by PointMaid on Jun 28th 2020 at 10:12:49 AM

That's perfectly fair. I'm just wondering at how she and absolutely nobody else ever realized this.

James might have been aware on some level.

‘My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’

Except Snape is also pretty awful in the books. He's a Sadist Teacher who plays favorites and is abusive to children - his own students no less. His treatment of Neville is particularly shitty. Then there's that one scene where he made fun of Hermione's teeth after she was jinxed.

The movies really softened his character.

Edited by M84 on Jun 28th 2020 at 11:40:31 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

My favorite headcanon ship is Sirius' Bike / The Weasley's Car, and no one will ever convince me otherwise.

This. Book! Snape is an awful human being who happens to have nobility to him in specific situations. Lily ending up with would have been the culmination of nothing but Rowling's bad habit or treating her like an object.

TBH, I think the problem behind a lot of the resistances towards the relationships Rowling wrote is the fact that Rowling was a lot better at writing people being jerks - or at least being controlled by their flaws - than being commiserate.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 28th 2020 at 9:25:42 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

James being a complete jerk but realising it and making a genuine change is a fairly standard character arc. The problems are first that we never actually see him change or even realise that he needed to, and secondly everyone else (other than Snape) seems super willing to play it off as "boys will be boys" banter/prank stuff and not actually bullying.

Things like him saving Snapes life from Wolf!Lupin show he did at least have standards but the same incident makes Sirius (his best friend and Harry's proto-uncle) look, just, the absolute worst. I don't think Sirius ever apologises for that or showsany sign of considering just maybe he was wrong to do it.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."

I mean what Sirius did was bad, but I can see why he is not super ashamed of it with Snape being a seethingly racist and antisocial Nazi at the time.

Edited by lycropath on Jun 28th 2020 at 1:49:06 AM

The "boys will be boys" mentality was much more accepted back then and the only accounts we really got from that era are from Reamus, Sirius, and Snape, all of whom had different opinions on what happened.

Also, going back to Harry/Ginny, there was also a moment around Easter when Ginny delivered chocolate to Harry in the library. I forget the full context, but I know she was trying to instill some Weasley antics into Harry's brooding.

Edited by tclittle on Jun 28th 2020 at 3:55:21 AM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."

What Sirius did to Snape was absolutely disgusting but the even worse crime is what he did to Lupin by making him the crux of this frankly murderous scheme. This is his friend. Imagine how Remus would have felt if he had actually torn Snape to pieces while transformed.

Nobody ever focuses on how awful that is, what a betrayal it was, even Lupin himself.

Oh, there’s piles - piles - of fanfic about that. I agree, it was a horrendous thing to do to Lupin. I don’t think Sirius genuinely intended Snape’s death - more a scare and probable mauling - but even if that’s the case, it was still dreadful and he definitely didn’t think through the consequences.

Sirius is kinda inbred so that would explain why he didn't think this through. Still a dumb move.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Plus, we should remember that he called Lily (who is meant to be the love of his life) a "mudblood" for no real reason. That will never even make sense to me.

Yeah, he would try to apologize later. But still, Lily was completely right to cut all ties with him after that.

Edited by Kickisan on Jun 28th 2020 at 12:04:03 PM

Yeah, I too blame much of Sirius's recklessness and weird behavior on inbreeding.

He really started internalizing blood purism a good while before that, so he said the worst possible thing when he lost control. He was already taking that train.

Edited by Blueace on Jun 28th 2020 at 9:15:51 AM

Wake me up at your own risk.

The "mudblood" slur was what made it real for Lily. That's the moment she realized what Snape was becoming and that she had to cut off ties with him.

Disgusted, but not surprised

@Kickisan

He said it because he hung around people who said it and he said it himself to people who Weren't Lily and finally he was out of his mind with anger and humiliation. That isn't an excuse, it's the explanation both explicit and implicit.

He said it because he was racist. He hated muggles and started doing that well before he went to Hogwarts. That's right there in his memory dump, with how he talks to and about Petunia.

Because he was a child and the only muggle he knew was his abusive father.

You mean like Harry?

And even if that was a good excuse, he did not change. He was a racist teenager who saw nothing wrong with using dark magic on people ("Just a bit of a laugh".) and he joined a racist terrorist organization as an adult.

Edited by deludedmusings on Jun 29th 2020 at 1:34:09 AM

Yep, Snape got started on the Wizard superiority stuff fairly early in life. The movie flashback made him seem way less creepy than the book flashback.

It really speaks volumes about what kind of person Lily was that she was willing to put up with his crap for as long as she did and tried to see the best in him. The "mudblood" slur was what finally made her realize that she wasn't actually doing either of them any favors by doing this.

Edited by M84 on Jun 28th 2020 at 11:35:50 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

It's actually fairly interesting just how much they cut out from the movies to make Snape, well, less creepy as you said.

Harry who is explicitly painted as a unique saintly human being who is the only person on Earth who could have looked into a mirror that showed them their heart's desire and it showed him only the way to save the world.

No, Snape can't compare with St. Harry. Luckily we understand people can't all be saints. Some poor people will probably end up selling drugs because they're poor and we maybe give them some leniency. Some people from abusive households will become abusers themselves and we recognize this and try to help them with it.

Judgment and condemnation are rarely useful tools for self-improvement.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jun 28th 2020 at 8:36:10 AM

They had to cut out so many of Snape's more detestable moments. To the point that movie Snape is almost a completely different character.

It's like how Game of Thrones Tyrion is a very different person from A Song of Ice and Fire Tyrion.

Edited by M84 on Jun 28th 2020 at 11:38:21 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

Snape in the books is an abusive asshole who has insulted his students like Hermione and Neville to the point of tears without laying a finger on them.

Movie Snape is a petty asshole who has physically harmed his students in minor ways. Granted, this Snape did try to physically protect the Trio from werewolf Lupin so that's a point in his favor.

Pick your poison.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 28th 2020 at 8:39:55 AM

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Book!Snape also forced Neville to test his potion on his pet toad. So that's animal abuse too.

Disgusted, but not surprised