A general thread for discussion of the Harry Potter books. Any new books set in the same world are also on-topic.
Games, films and other adaptations may be more appropriate for other threads if they're being discussed in isolation.
The HBO tv series has its own thread
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Mod Notes:
- Media threads are primarily for fans of the works they cover. Not everyone will like everything, of course, and that's especially true in a franchise like Harry Potter. It's fine to say a particular story within the franchise doesn't work for you, or to talk about why it doesn't work for you. But please try not to dwell on the negativity for too long. Complaints shouldn't take up too much space on a thread that's intended for fans.
- This is a thread to talk about Harry Potter and the content of the stories, not a place to talk about J. K. Rowling's more controversial views. If there's something newsworthy where Rowling's activities become relevant (e.g. it affects her relationship to new Potter works and adaptations), that's fair enough. Otherwise it's all been said already and we don't need to repeat it.
there doesn't seem to be a general HP topic...
Edited by Mrph1 on May 27th 2025 at 9:17:24 AM
Anyway anyone else think that the wizards would have been far better served in the war if they used muggle technology? Why use a freaking patronus - one of the most difficult spells there apprently is - if you could use a mobile phone? I seriously doubt any of the death eaters know how to text.
Personally, I bet Voldemort is not expecting a .22 round to the head. (Or use magic to implement technology! Hex + Time Turner = Time-loop computer
)
edited 30th Jun '10 8:46:28 AM by Yej
^ I haven't seen Potter Puppet Pals in so long...
Stirring up debate for the hellofit?
For shame =P
Snape's crippling flaw is his inibility to forgive—or at least put into perspective—the childhood slights of a man who has been dead for years. He can't move on, both in regards to his friends/crushes and his enemies, to the point of transferring them to anyone and everyone associated with said enemies.
James' children, James' friends, James' children's friends. It's kind of ridiculous.
Granted, James was a jerk, but he doesn't show up enough after his teenage years to make a jugement on weather or not he moved on. We shall have to extrapolate from what we do know.
What we do know: Lily was not a jerk. At all. We see this in every appearence she makes and hear of it every time her personality comes up. Would Lily marry a jerk?
Though the veiw we get of Lily and James is slightly warped by their martyrdom. People tend to look better in retrospect.
In conclusion, we've already gone over this stuff. Do you have any real support for your argument?
^^ what's to support? James was an asshole. You've already agreed with that.
Snape was a better man because Snape was brave beyond words. He had the nerve to return to Voldemort when he knew full well Voldy was a murderous lunatic of a boss who must surely consider him a traitor. in short, he knew he had a 99% chance of being killed on the spot yet he went there and succeeded with flying colors.
As for his inability to move on, why is that a flaw? It's the only reason he's a good guy. His love for Lily was what made him protect Harry. If he had moved on, he would have let Harry die as he would be putting his love for Lily behind him.
You can't move on and not move on at the same time. As long as he remembered Lily, he'd have to remember James.
And so what if he was mean to Harry? harry is one of the biggest whiners in the series. Not that he doesn't have reason tow complain but he has a tendency to get bitchy over trivial matters.
Best example is in, of course, Book 5. The book most famous for 1) Sirius' death and 2) Harry's Wangst.
"I didn't get to be Prefect!! Why not? i'm so much better than Ron!"
No you'r enot Harry, you miserable failure of a protagonist.
Yeah I guess I excuse Snape's tormenting Harry because I can sympathize with not liking Harry.
That doesn't excuse Snape's torturing of Hermione , though. And I often wonder if Snape could have been fired for poisoning Trevor had Hermione not been able to help Neville.
edited 30th Jun '10 1:32:33 PM by Nikkolas
I don't think this kind of speculation is likely to be productive; Rowling doesn't seem to have invested much effort into predicting consequences within the adult world of her series. This arguably isn't that big of a deal from the perspective of a children's book * but causes serious problems with the books' logical consistency from an adult perspective.
I will keep my soul in a place out of sight, Far off, where the pulse of it is not heard.^^ My argument is that James stopped being an asshole before he died, and Snape never did.
And your "Courage" point doesn't hold up too well— Snape would have died if he hadn't returned (that's what happened to Karkaroff), but he would've died sooner. It's not like James faced off with Voldemort wandless assuming he was going to live through it, either.
Yes Snape would have died if he tried to run but look at it like Harry's analogy in Book 6. It's the difference between being dragged to the lions or facing them down. Snape could just have easily been killed upon his return to Voldemort but he still did it.
As for James facing down Voldemort...
"Fools who wear their hearts proudly on their sleeves, who cannot control their emotions, who wallow in sad memories and allow themselves to be provoked this easily — weak people, in other words — they stand no chance against his powers! You will find yourself easy prey for the Dark Lord!"
Yes he tried to fight the strongest dark wizard ever while wandless. That's why bravery and stupidity so often overlap.
If Snap ehad been the one there, he could have at least bought Lily more than five seconds of extra life. Good job, James.
^ You don't know that Snape would have been able to save Lily for even one more second. And if James happened to not have his wand at that moment, well, he was in his own house, secure in the knowledge that Peter Pettigrew wouldn't betray them, he was just playing with his wife and son. Why would he need his wand at that instant? And at the moment of panic, he didn't look away from Voldemort to try and reach for his wand; he attacked Voldemort unarmed. Yes, it was stupid, but he A.) didn't have a lot of time to exactly plan, and B.), anything he did, he probably would have had the same result. But he went out like a Gryffindor - "pressed to the wall, dying, but fighting back!"
As for, "People can't move on and not move on at the same time," I think that's an oversimplification of the human mind and memory. Lily and James represent two entirely different emotions for Snape - love and hatred - and he can let go of one while keeping the other. And especially in JKR's universe, where love is, without a doubt, the most powerful thing in the world, love can endure when hate is let go of. He could have forgiven James at any time - it would have been hard, it would have required remorse, but he could have done it.
And Snape was a bitter, cruel man. He tormented Neville, who in book one wasn't even a good friend of Harry's. He tormented Neville because he knew Neville was terrified of potions, and got fun out of it. He was full of bitterness that he could have and should have let go of.
Snape is the next step down from the Dmbledore/Voldemort/Grindelwald level of wizard. If anyone could have at least posed a challenge to Voldemort, it be him.
And I don't think it's an oversimplification of the human minds at all to say feelings and memories are linked. Thinking of your mother probably makes you think of your father for instance.
Seeing something also tends to stir up emotions and memories. For instance, every time Snape saw Harry, he must have felt both the love of Lily and the hatred for James. This is clearly shown to be the case in his last moments.
I won't blame Snape for having a perfectly normal human reaction.
That being said, Snape had a lot of issues. That's undeniable. Perhaps I like Snape so much because my favorite kind of character is one motivated by love. They can be motivated to evil or good but as long as it's their sole reason for why they do what they do, I admire them for it. In the end, Snape's entire character was defined by love. Even the hatred that was also a prominent part of him was only so powerful because of that love.
EDIT: Oh and as for why i originally brought this topic up, it's because I looked at the Die For Our Ship page.
edited 1st Jul '10 12:40:29 AM by Nikkolas
There's a reason Die for Our Ship is considered one of the cornerstones of Fan Dumb.
There's also a reason that this:
is on the Die for Our Ship page, and that's because of arguments like yours.
edited 2nd Jul '10 7:23:39 AM by Tangent128
You are not alone, and you are not strange. You are you, and everyone has damage. Be the better person.Well as far as I can see, my argument is just that Snape waw a good character and James wasn't. Which I believe to be the truth as one had significant development and characterization while the other was
One second: I'm an asshole.
Next econd: I'm all nice.
So while I can't speak for everyone, I am in favor of Snape/Lily because Snape had actual character and depth.
edited 2nd Jul '10 9:08:38 AM by Nikkolas
Snape also had a decent amount of screentime. James didn't.
On account of, you know, being dead.
That said, Snape is undoubtedly a better character. But better character =/= better person.
edited 2nd Jul '10 11:00:59 AM by Drakyndra
The owner of this account is temporarily unavailable. Please leave your number and call again later.^^ I had a thing to say about Snape and James, but Drakyndra ninja'd me.
I do get to say however that:
A) You are really SOL if you want the pairing to be true that badly.
B) People who act like you do are the reason people hate shipping.
edited 2nd Jul '10 11:33:15 AM by BetaRay
You are not alone, and you are not strange. You are you, and everyone has damage. Be the better person.^^ Well what determines a better person is largely subjective anyway.
^ well that's their loss isn't it. There are many reasons to hate shipping but my passionate difference of opinion seems one of the lesser evils.
For instance, if anything were to put me off shipping, it be the whole shipping two characters who's only relationship is they shared a panel/sentence/screen together at one point. That kind of thing is pretty lame and stupid and shows what a waste of time shipping can be.
edited 2nd Jul '10 11:54:10 AM by Nikkolas
Nikkolas, this shit storm is over. See your P Ms for my response.
So, what was everyone's favorite moment in Harry Potter?
You are not alone, and you are not strange. You are you, and everyone has damage. Be the better person.Hmm, personally I always loved the formation of Dumbledore's Army in the fifth book. A sort of La Résistance and the way it was meant to help students and a way to sort of stick it to that bitch Umbridge.

This looks like a job for... an image macro!
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edited 23rd Jun '10 5:07:30 PM by Roman
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