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Smasher from The 1830's, but without the racists (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: The best thing that ever happened to a bum like me
#141201: Dec 26th 2021 at 12:17:54 PM

Regular Pat has released his KH 2 Boss Ranking video!

No Struggle, FF characters in the Coliseum, Data Battles, or Absent Silhouettes. Or Riku in Land of Dragons or Roxas' Shadow.

    TL;DW 

41. Genie Jafar

40. Pete 2

39. Grim Reaper 1

38. Prison Keeper

37. Thresholder and Possessor (Door in Beasts' Castle)

36. Shan-Yu

35. Demyx 1

34. Hostile Program

33. Barbossa

32. Hercules

31. Cerberus

30. Captain Pete

29. Hades

28. Fire and Ice Lords

27. Pete 1

26. Beast

25. Shenzi, Banzi, and Ed

24. Scar

23. Sark and MCP

22. Axel 1

21. Pete 3

20. The Groundshaker

19. The Experiment

18. Grim Reaper 2

17. Luxord

16. Storm Rider

15. Saix

14. Shadow Stalker/Dark Thorn

13. Demyx 2

12. Xaldin

11. Twilight Thorn

10. Xigbar

9. Sephiroth

8. The Hydra

7. Oogie Boogie

6. Xemnas 1

5. Axel 2

4. Armored Xemnas/Dragon Ship

3. Lingering William

2. Roxas

1. Final Xemnas

Edited by Smasher on Feb 15th 2022 at 4:43:03 AM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#141202: Dec 26th 2021 at 8:01:34 PM

Nothing too surprising - I think most of these of these line up with previously expressed opinions, and the rest are fairly popular in general.

Still, glad to see him finally put this one out.

Oh God! Natural light!
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#141203: Dec 27th 2021 at 5:20:15 AM

Top 3 are all neck to neck but it's a pretty good ranking.

Today in 'hilariously excessive mods': How would you like Judgment Cut End in Kingdom Hearts? Look no further!

Edited by Ninety on Dec 27th 2021 at 5:36:32 AM

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#141204: Dec 30th 2021 at 7:07:07 PM

Found these regarding Terra:

  • Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Terra is meant to be a decent, if naive, guy struggling with the Black-and-White Morality imposed on him, falling into darkness as a result. Except he's tempted into evil by Xehanort, who might as well have "I AM THE VILLAIN AND I AM TRYING TO CORRUPT YOU BECAUSE I AM EVIL" tattooed on his forehead, which handily drops him from "naive" to "Too Dumb to Live".
  • Designated Evil: Terra's struggle with his Darkness, which is supposed to be a massive Ironic Echo between him and Riku. However, whereas Riku willingly accepted Darkness in the original Kingdom Hearts, Terra actually has it forced upon him. note  Furthermore, while Riku clearly started Jumping Off the Slippery Slope during the course of the original game, Terra's only known crime — allegedly stealing Aurora's Heart via the power of Darkness — is actually the combined fault of Maleficent and Master Xehanort for temporarily invoking Brainwashed and Crazy on him. Additionally, Riku deliberately attacked Sora and co. out of anger and arrogance, whereas Terra only willingly resorts to Darkness as a self-defensive last resort against Braig, Eraqus, Xehanort, etc. And yet Riku ended up being the much luckier one, being able to start redeeming himself immediately after the original game; Terra, meanwhile, ends up receiving a far longer-lasting Fate Worse than Death — which many fans just see as Karmic Overkill for events largely out of his control to begin with.

The latter argues he's unintentionally sympathetic given the circumstances , thus UU is more about his intended intelligence than sympathy. Thoughts? Should one or the other be cut? I'm leaning to cut UU as it's not complaining about unsympatheticness but unintelligence.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#141205: Dec 30th 2021 at 7:12:47 PM

Nothing about Terra is unsympathetic. Purge that entry.

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#141206: Dec 30th 2021 at 7:43:53 PM

Similar thing in YMMV.Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep:

  • Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Aqua when she sacrifices herself to get Terra back to the Realm of Light and causing herself to be stuck in the Realm of Darkness was meant to be viewed as a selfless Heroic Sacrifice to save her friend from falling to darkness. However, there were two problems wrong with Aqua's choice. The first is that there was nothing preventing Aqua from being able to get both herself and Terra out, making her sacrifice look forced and unnecessary. And the second is that Aqua not only let Terra back to the Realm of Light, but also Xehanort. And Aqua knew that Xehanort was possessing Terra, meaning she knew that Xehanort could still be able to cause further harm to Terra and even to the other worlds and the people, and she also didn't know that Xehanort became amnestic which made him no longer a threat for that moment. Aqua's sacrifice comes off as more of an act of stupidity since she sacrificed herself over nothing preventing her from getting out with Terra and she also caused the chain of events involving Xehanort by letting him go back to the Realm of Light in Terra's body without going back with him to ensure he would not cause any more trouble to the worlds and help Terra be rid of his control, all for the sake of continuity.

Again, this seems like stupidity as opposed to unsympatheticness. Cut? Any details about this moment being missed that might warrant keeping/moving elsewhere?

ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
MarkIV Alchemist from Fewwawi Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Not war
Alchemist
#141208: Dec 31st 2021 at 4:28:36 AM

There are some very unforgiving people on this site.

Are there any KH protagonists that could be considered Unintentionally Unsympathetic?

Life is more fun with infinite MP.
Musings Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#141209: Dec 31st 2021 at 4:34:58 AM

Mm, not really. KH protagonists tend to suffer with intelligence issues, rather than sympathy ones.

At least beyond certain vocal minorities.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#141210: Dec 31st 2021 at 5:02:38 AM

Maybe Kingdom Hearts II Sora for being a bit more vitriolic than he should be against Organization XIII just for existing?

The legend has returned.
lycropath Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#141211: Dec 31st 2021 at 5:10:41 AM

I don't blame Sora for believing the bad people doing bad things have no real feelings since their response to that was uniformly "Okay yeah you're right." And put up their dukes.

ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#141212: Dec 31st 2021 at 5:28:57 AM

His anger could also be influenced from Roxas who did not have any good feelings about the Organization by that point. Heck, Di Z flat out told Roxas to teach Sora anger.

-Witty line-
FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#141213: Dec 31st 2021 at 6:30:46 AM

Sora just so mean to those poor nobodies... I mean all they've done is A: Try to mind rape him B: Manipulate and extort him and C: Try to kill him

They're the real victims here!!!

This is an outrage against Luminara!
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#141214: Dec 31st 2021 at 7:40:35 AM

Honestly the case could be argued that Org XIII bar Mansex (maybe) were Unintentionally Sympathetic. And Nomura later realized it, and decided to do some retcons that roll with it, possibly starting as far back as letting Axel have more screen time as opposed to dying in KH 2's prolouge.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Dec 31st 2021 at 7:41:36 AM

ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#141215: Dec 31st 2021 at 7:52:43 AM

[up][up]Hell, he still doesn't even remember half of them.

-Witty line-
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#141216: Dec 31st 2021 at 8:05:57 AM

He doesn't remember what Organization XIII did to him in Castle Oblivion to this day, so as far as he knows, they're just humanoid Nobodies to him at that stage.

Edited by Weirdguy149 on Dec 31st 2021 at 11:06:12 AM

The legend has returned.
FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#141217: Dec 31st 2021 at 8:35:10 AM

in KH 2 and Co M proper the only Nobodies barring Roxas and Axel you can make an argument who could be reasonably seen as sympathetic is Demyx and maybe Luxord and thats strictly cause they aren't developed that much and they are just doing what Xemnas is ordering them to do under threat of devolution. and Axel does so much fucking amoral shit before hand that Axel's is more a case of he is sympathetic cause Sora doesn't know all the BS Axel's been up too 'IE Talking Riku Replica into his suicide by Cop anybody just to tie up one more loose end'

in the original context though...

You've got to do alot of mental gymnastics to justify selfish people unleashing the Heartless hordes

This is an outrage against Luminara!
MarkIV Alchemist from Fewwawi Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Not war
Alchemist
#141218: Dec 31st 2021 at 11:45:28 AM

We still have no idea who Demyx and Luxord were before they became nobodies, apart from having ancient links to some keyblade business.

Life is more fun with infinite MP.
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#141219: Dec 31st 2021 at 12:32:52 PM

358/2 Days did a lot more to help establish Luxor’s as someone who is frustrated by how the Superiors treat them but has no hope of thinking he could escape it either.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Dec 31st 2021 at 12:32:59 PM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Mega_zxa Since: Mar, 2015
#141220: Dec 31st 2021 at 1:43:25 PM

When it comes to the BBS trios and how sympathetic they are it runs into the problem that all three of them are given the idiot ball (I should probably go with all four of them, Eraqus got handed a pretty big one as well). It makes them come across as less sympathetic than they actually are. I mean Terra was gas-lit his entire journey by Master Xehanort. Eraqus had no problem introducing Xehanort as someone his students should trust, and was willing to kill Ventus rather than going straight for the source of the problem, Xehanort. They had Aqua jump to some weird conclusions just to have Terra go his off on his own. Rather than everything falling to Xehanorts manipulations it needed everyone to become an idiot.

burninganimefan357 Since: Oct, 2012
#141221: Jan 1st 2022 at 11:50:59 PM

The Triple Xehanort battle with their data movesets.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#141222: Jan 2nd 2022 at 2:56:19 PM

Holy shit. The best part is, that's the canon version of the fight.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#141223: Jan 2nd 2022 at 4:09:22 PM

Just missing Riku and Mickey.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#141224: Jan 4th 2022 at 4:17:09 PM

Fanart of Sora and Xion

A lovely moment between them

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#141225: Jan 5th 2022 at 5:24:59 PM

Curious question: what Dream Weapon did you choose and sacrifice in the first Kingdom Hearts game and did you like that system, along with the questions that helped dictate where you gained the most experience in the game?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

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