Kingdom Hearts

Musketeers is a past version of Disney Castle.

Disney Castle was never consumed by darkness and, arguably, is the ONLY world that cannot be consumed by darkness.

So, how could "It wasn't restored after the first game" make sense for THAT world?

I mean, look, I get TRON because its just a copy of the same system (even if that brings up other fridge horror/logic), but that isn't possible with Disney Castle.

Musketeers isn't the same world as Disney Castle.

That makes... even less sense...

Mickey Mouse is going undercover in France for reasons.

What does that make Pete? Or Minnie? Or Donald and Goofy?

its probably the world there were on before they moved to disney castle

But... wouldn't Steamboat Willie predate Musketeers???

I'm pretty sure Mickey and crew were there undercover. Probably chased Pete there.

When I bother to consider that plothole, I headcanon that Disney Town & the Musketeer World are one world, and that Disney Castle & Timeless River is another world, and the Micky crew is one of the few that has two worlds (would explain why they already had a Gummi Ship in KH 1).

Disney Town is explicitly outside of Disney Castle.

There's alternate versions of Mickey and the gang?

Implication is that Mickey was in the Country of Musketeers on the orders of Yen Sid as part of his keyblade training.

...But then what is EVERYONE else's excuse in that world???

This. Makes. No. Sense.

From what I understand Donald and Goofy are there with him as usual, Pete is there to cause trouble while Minnie is native to that world.

Also, when was this ever explained?

Because my issue with Kingdom Hearts a lot of times is I see a dozen explanations thrown out and I never understand where they come from so I end up assuming a lot is Fan Wank.

Mickey says that he is from another world and he is in the Land of Musketeers to "solve a problem". Presumably that problem is Pete since we know he is from the same world as Mickey as are Goofy and Donald.

Edited by lycropath on Dec 4th 2018 at 2:44:28 AM

about how Sora never gave the Nobodies a chance

What chance was he suppose to give them?

In the context of KH 2 'Before all the mother fucking retcons that turned into a we're so sorry apologies'

In Context The only Nobodies Sora runs into before he's even made aware of Roxas/Namine 'Xion doesn't count here cause KH 2 context' Are

Xemnas : Asshole in Command

Xigbar: Cryptic Asshole

Xaldin: Massive Asshole

Sai'x: Sadistic Asshole

Demyx: The Lazy One... he might be an asshole its hard to tell

Luxord: The Well Spoken Asshole

Axel's the only one he runs into that is kinda sympathetic but Axel proceeds to blow himself up before confusing Sora even more with his allusions to Roxas and even then the best Sora's got is Axel is the Asshole who kidnapped Kairi

If Sora actually remembered Co M by KH 2

The only Sympathetic Nobody he'd met was Namine' who was being used and abused by the guys in Black robes so Yeah.

which adds

Vexen: Inventive Asshole that made clone of His BFF just to fuck with him

Axel: Amoral Asshole who seems to flip flop whose side his on so Sora can't trust him

Larxene: Queen Bitch of the Universe

Marluxia: The Asshole behind it all whose been manipulating him and forcing Namine' to fuck with his head

Basically if you haven't noticed the pattern here.

____

Now when it comes to Roxas and Namine', Sora does seem to show sympathy for their mistreatment but at that point there really isn't anything he can do... Namine' proceeds to fry his brain one more time so h doesn't remember her and well Roxas is bad case of being late to the tragedy

and when the retcons do get set in... Sora is rightfully outraged by Xemnas' manipulation of his fellow nobodies to the point he runs himself ragged without thinking.

So No I'm sorry, This whole We should have tired something line of thinking is

Stop admiring them nice form fitting leather pants, The Nobodies of Organization XIII Dug their graves and then got set down in them

I want Final Form to return or at least an Equivalent.

To my knowledge, they never do explain what Mickey was doing in the Land of the Musketeers, if all the characters there are supposed to be alternative versions of themselves, if it's the past, or why it's even a Sleeping World.

It's the apex of the series' bad habit of not caring about integrating the Disney worlds into the wider story. Frequently the Disney worlds are treated as irrelevant, but here it isn't even vaguely consistent with the rest of the story.

I mean, there were at least two points in KHII where Sora has the opportunity to be a bit more diplomatic — when Demyx appears in Hollow Bastion and when they encounter Xemnas in the World that Never Was. In both cases, Sora's response is "Fuck you, you're Nobodies who don't feel anything and I'm not falling for any of your bullshit!"

Which is part of what makes this retcon clunky. There's never a moment where Sora has any kind of epiphany about the way he behaved or gets mad that Yen Sid misled him. It's just smoothed over and we're expected to forget about it, presumably because the series doesn't actually want to grapple with the implications of Yen Sid being an evil racist who manipulated Sora into becoming his genocidal hitman.

Edited by DrDougsh on Dec 4th 2018 at 2:19:33 AM

And he's still a jerk to Luxord from what we've seen of III despite not choosing to be one of Xehanorts vessels of his own volition.

And we have context now that Luxord wasn't a bad person thanks to 358/2 Days. Just miserable and reluctantly accepting he's a Pawn of the Organization who knows nothing about what goes on and that there's no way to defy the Superior.

I am wondering how unwilling or willing are most of these vessels anyway? Like they retain most of the personalities but are compelled to be obedient and loyal via possession or did they choose that because they want something and thus retain some autonomy?

Also calling Demyx on his bullshit and then Demyx immediately going murder-bitch bossfight mode doesn't exactly make Demyx really seem open to diplomacy.

Also trying to reason with Xemnas seems like a lost cause, especially since he spends 90% of his dialogue waxing philosophically about how hearts are only good for hate and that he doesn't give a shit about the actual good parts of a heart.

Why Sora needs an epiphany about it seems clunkier then anything else because these are bad people doing bad things so who gives a rats ass if you called them out when they are indeed every time trying to manipulate you. You want sympathy and help then make an honest effort, literally all Axel had to do to get Sora to sympathize with him was not try and kill him and give him a helping hand when there where enemies around.

Edited by lycropath on Dec 4th 2018 at 3:33:21 AM

I also love the fact Demyx get painted up as some helpless puppy when both times he tries to sucker punch you

Yen Sid did not lead Sora astray

the Nobodies had been up to no good for atleast a year and a half if not more

any sympathetic Nobody is either crushed under foot or based on that scene in KH 2 FM turned into one of the lesser Nobodies where they are rendered effectively walking corpses

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Dec 4th 2018 at 9:11:13 AM

It does seem rather unreasonable to call out Sora for not being too sympathetic to people who are trying to kill and manipulate him and his friends.

Granted, I'm biased since I still have nightmares about Demyx's "Dance, Water, dance!"

Edited by M84 on Dec 4th 2018 at 11:57:37 PM

Diz was doing that himself and gets a redemption, and he was just as bad considering how he treated Roxas.

All because he suddenly had a realization offscreen.

I don't blame Sora for Nobody-phobia, but I do blame Yen Sid and especially DiZ.