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Rebochan from Kalevala (Y2K) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#226: Oct 27th 2009 at 1:34:52 PM

It bugs me when it's someone that clearly isn't gay or them being gay causes other problems with their interpretation.

Well, that and "gay" doesn't automatically mean "Has nothing better to do all day but prance around looking for sex". Amazing how many people think sexual orientation removes character depth :P

Theoneknownasme Since: Dec, 1969
#227: Oct 27th 2009 at 1:39:12 PM

Well, granted, but OOC behavior is a problem with fanfic in general, not just slashfic.

JotunofBoredom Left Eye from Noatun Since: Dec, 2009
Left Eye
#228: Oct 27th 2009 at 1:48:32 PM

"Not quite getting what you mean by "change", Jotun. If you're talking about changing how the characters interact, or how the 'verse works, I'm in total agreement. If it's just something like "Character X is gay for the entirety of this fic". . . Yeah, don't really see how it's a big deal. Alternative Character Interpretation and all that, y'know?"

I was referring to both actually, character interpretation only goes so far.

Umbran Climax
LizardBite Shameless Self-Promoter from Two Galaxies Over Since: Jan, 2001
#229: Oct 27th 2009 at 1:54:15 PM

the numerous retcons that have been introduced * Do pureblood Heartless release hearts, or not?

It just bugs me that people insist on calling the whole "Heartless are actually hearts" thing a retcon, since it was blatantly in the first game (hearts are released from the heartless upon dying and there's a scene in Traverse Town where you actually see somebody's heart turn into a Soldier).

Pannic Since: Jul, 2009
#230: Oct 27th 2009 at 2:00:18 PM

I don't remember the scene too well, but didn't the normal shadow heartless take the guy's heart, and then the normal heartless turned into the soldier?

JotunofBoredom Left Eye from Noatun Since: Dec, 2009
Left Eye
#231: Oct 27th 2009 at 2:16:51 PM

Nope, no other heartless appeared other than the one soldier(it immediately disappears after creation).

And no, natural heartless do not release hearts.

Umbran Climax
Theoneknownasme Since: Dec, 1969
#232: Oct 27th 2009 at 2:23:39 PM

Then how could someone who was turned into a Pureblood heartless (i.e. Sora) create a Nobody in the first place? Or rather, how could that Nobody ever hope to find his or her heart again? That's what confuses me.

It just bugs me that people insist on calling the whole "Heartless are actually hearts" thing a retcon, since it was blatantly in the first game (hearts are released from the heartless upon dying and there's a scene in Traverse Town where you actually see somebody's heart turn into a Soldier).

But that contradicts later canon, which says that Emblem Heartless (the ones with the Heartless symbol on them) eat hearts, which then goes on to create another Emblem, whereas Purebloods are formed when a heart falls into darkness, or some such nonsense. I can't make it make sense.

edited 27th Oct '09 2:26:17 PM by Theoneknownasme

Penguin4Senate Since: Aug, 2009
#233: Oct 27th 2009 at 2:35:32 PM

Can I yell about how the fandom pretty much ruined what little respect I had for the story? I wish fans focused on the brilliant games, not their own nutjob pseudopsychological theories. SE just keeps making it worse by introducing more convoluted plots (clones? alter egos? clones of alter-egos? brilliant!), but I can hardly blame them for knowing their audience. If this keeps up, I'm just going to get the soundtracks and nothing else.

Sorry, that was bad. Are they going to use Pixar worlds at any point?

edited 27th Oct '09 2:35:45 PM by Penguin 4 Senate

JotunofBoredom Left Eye from Noatun Since: Dec, 2009
Left Eye
#234: Oct 27th 2009 at 2:36:51 PM

What?

Whether or not a nobody is created doesn't depend on what type if heartless they turn into, it depends on how strong their heart was.

Also, how is his post contradictory?

Edit: Screw the flowchart!

edited 27th Oct '09 2:41:29 PM by Jotun of Boredom

Umbran Climax
Theoneknownasme Since: Dec, 1969
#235: Oct 27th 2009 at 2:44:38 PM

It;s not that the Nobody is created in the first place. It's that, since Purebloods don't release hearts (being a corrupted heart themselves), there's not really any way for a Nobody born of a Pureblood Heartless to recover their heart. Unless beating the Heartless "fixes" their heart or something, but there's been no mention of that.

Or to put it another way, the only reason (thus far) that Roxas wasn't supremely fucked and destined to fade is because Kairi managed to restore Sora to normal. If he'd stayed a Shadow, there'd be no heart for Roxas to merge with. At least, if I'm understanding the mechanics of things correctly.

EDIT: It's contradictory because the hearts that are released by Heartless are (supposedly) the hearts they ate, not their own. I dunno, the Heartless don't make much sense to me anyway.

edited 27th Oct '09 2:47:00 PM by Theoneknownasme

Pacific Oh Yeah? from da beach house Since: Jan, 2001
Oh Yeah?
#236: Oct 27th 2009 at 2:57:15 PM

OK more 368/2 days stuff.

The combat has improved a lot, I think. There's more room for improvisation, rather than just preparation, like in Kingdom Hearts II. You often don't just press A constantly, and have to use magic and items. For instance, enemies that shoot things need to be blocked- whereas in KHII you could just soak up enemy shots with little penalty. The ammunition-based magic system is also an improvement over what KHII had. Also, the combo counter feels like something to work towards. Fire also actually does something useful.

It's like having KHII in your pocket sometimes- the engine seems to be identical, albiet scaled down for the DS.

I keep getting A and B mixed up, due to B being where X is and A being where Circle is.

edited 27th Oct '09 3:00:00 PM by Pacific

LizardBite Shameless Self-Promoter from Two Galaxies Over Since: Jan, 2001
#237: Oct 27th 2009 at 2:58:06 PM

which says that Emblem Heartless (the ones with the Heartless symbol on them) eat hearts, which then goes on to create another Emblem,

Where does it say that? My understanding was that Emblem heartless were exactly like purebloods, just manufactured instead of naturally born. Did I miss something?

JotunofBoredom Left Eye from Noatun Since: Dec, 2009
Left Eye
#238: Oct 27th 2009 at 3:48:16 PM

"It's contradictory because the hearts that are released by Heartless are (supposedly) the hearts they ate, not their own. I dunno, the Heartless don't make much sense to me anyway."

Where did you get your info?

The hearts released by heartless are what they are made of, i.e. what is binding their very existence together. That is why, if a heart is not "released" by the keyblade, the heartless eventually reform.

Presumably the keyblade wards the outer darkness away, only leaving the heart itself behind.

Umbran Climax
BetaRay Web Slinger/Hope Bringer Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Web Slinger/Hope Bringer
#239: Oct 27th 2009 at 4:18:52 PM

When it comes to Heartless/Nobodies I kinda just apply Broad Strokes to the canon.

You are not alone, and you are not strange. You are you, and everyone has damage. Be the better person.
JotunofBoredom Left Eye from Noatun Since: Dec, 2009
Left Eye
#240: Oct 27th 2009 at 4:30:22 PM

When it comes to those I usually just go "yay, more Mooks to kill".

Umbran Climax
Theoneknownasme Since: Dec, 1969
#241: Oct 27th 2009 at 9:43:32 PM

. . . Y'know, I don't even know where I pulled that from. I thought it was canon, like mentioned in the Ansem Reports somewhere, but for all I know, it's an Epileptic Tree I came across out in the great wide 'net.

I'm kind of not-really-with-it today. Go 'head and disregard me.

EDIT: I think I was basing the whole Pureblood/Emblem thing on stuff that was in the first game, plus stuff that shows up in 358/2 Days. We see two Heartless transformations on-screen; one Emblem, one Pureblood. The Emblem was the guy in Traverse Town; He got attacked by a Soldier, got his heart eaten/corrupted/whatever, and turned into a Soldier himself. The Pureblood was when Sora used the black Keyblade to free the darkness within his heart, turning himself into a Heartless and breaking the bonds between his heart, Kairi's heart, and his body. Add into that the fact that KH(Numpad SMASH) shows that Purebloods don't release hearts, and I made the conclusion that only an Emblem can create another Emblem.

Of course, that only makes sense if the Heartless actually steals a person's heart instead of the heart transforming into a Heartless. And since I can't find a source on that, I'm wondering where exactly I pulled that little factoid from.

EDIT 2: Aha. I found the line that gave me the impression that Heartless consumed hearts, not just transformed from them. At some point in KHII, Saïx says, and I quote:

"Pitiful Heartless, mindlessly collecting hearts, and yet they know not the true power of what they hold. The rage of the Keyblade releases those hearts. They gather in darkness, masterless and free... Until they weave together to make Kingdom Hearts!"

It was the 'collecting' that I picked up on.

edited 27th Oct '09 10:04:14 PM by Theoneknownasme

WildKnight Black Knight from the wasteland. Since: Jan, 2001
#243: Oct 28th 2009 at 1:42:27 AM

I thought Aqua was in Pocahontas's world at the end of the first video, but apparently that's Neverland...? Right then.

I'm suddenly very interested in playing Aqua, I'm not sure why. Likely because she's the first playable girl in Kingdom Hearts (main storyline-wise, at least) and isn't a clear expy of previous Square characters.

On another note, 358/2 Days arrived today, which is kind of ridiculous because I only ordered it yesterday. Damn, Amazon moves fast now. Fun so far and I'm starting to warm up to Xion, but the D-pad is really hurting my thumb. I'm playing on a D Si, though, that probably has something to do with it. Pretty good adaptation of KH to the DS otherwise. I imagine the D-pad is less of an issue on a DS Lite...in fact, I think I'll go ahead and switch to that...

Story-wise, I'm annoyed that Axel has flanderized into trying to slip "got it memorized?" into any decent-length conversation, and Xion's transition from being dead mute to cheery teenage girl was quick enough to give me whiplash. And why the hell does her hood keep popping on and off during that one conversation with Axel and Roxas?!

But yeah, pretty fun.

I defy your need to slip random bear puns in.

The blind man walking off the cliff is not making a leap of faith.
Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#244: Oct 28th 2009 at 1:47:12 AM

Beary interesting review I see.

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#245: Oct 28th 2009 at 2:06:52 AM

Axel eventually slows down on his use of that phrase, although likely only because Roxas has fewer things he needs to memorize later on. The bit with the hood is not due to the developers making a mistake.

WildKnight Black Knight from the wasteland. Since: Jan, 2001
#246: Oct 28th 2009 at 2:14:09 AM

@Kinkajou: I hope you're prepared for me to bear my fangs.

@Hylarn: I thought so; Square's too dedicated a developer to do something like that unintentionally. It just really creeped me out.

edited 28th Oct '09 2:15:35 AM by Wild Knight

The blind man walking off the cliff is not making a leap of faith.
Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#247: Oct 28th 2009 at 2:19:38 AM

Bear with my use of bad puns.

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
Karalora Since: Jan, 2001
#248: Oct 28th 2009 at 7:49:00 AM

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that we will not be seeing any Indians in the Indian Village in Neverland. Except maybe Tiger Lily.

Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#249: Oct 28th 2009 at 7:51:49 AM

Why? Unfortunate Implications or something?

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
Starbound2 Since: Jan, 2001
#250: Oct 28th 2009 at 7:54:54 AM

What I find weird is that they use Hollow Bastion music for that particular bit in Neverland.

EDIT: Also looking, it looks like each thing on the totem represents the three standard KH elements.

edited 28th Oct '09 7:58:09 AM by Starbound2


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