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Airships and their weapons.

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USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#326: Jul 29th 2011 at 11:09:10 AM

I haven't come up with the fluff other then they find it various volcanic strata. I have toyed with the idea that being able to sample liquid magma and process the cooled rock would yield some purified material in a metallic crystalline form. Any mountain ranges that were once volcanically active have a strong chance to have at least low grade concentrations of the ore. The ore proper needs to be alloyed with various metals.

So is anywhere that doesn't have large pockets of this in relatively easily-accessible locations screwed over, then? I imagine the Ottomans would have a tough time of it; Japan and the US would be golden, though.

The early weaponized war ships would be around the Mexican American War and a few militarized test runs prior. I want to have some smaller ambitious nation to actually have a small airship gun boat before anyone else makes serious air ship warships. To start each nation will have a few converted warships that will partially rely on wet navy coaling/water ships for resupply.

Mexican-American War? Whoa, talk about ambitious, much? That sounds like it would be ridiculously hard to keep supplied back then, let alone build with the metal working they had. Wouldn't that also accelerate naval development? It might screw the South over even more in the American Civil War. Or is it really simplistic and not that impressive?

Ah, resupply. I side-stepped that issue. Easy Logistics by virtue of not talking about it is your friend, man. Unless you need it for a plot point. evil grin

I am now known as Flyboy.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#327: Jul 29th 2011 at 11:33:16 AM

The earliest ship will be made of wood. Earliest warships might be something similar. The metal frames will come along as they advance wet navy design. There will be scant few early warships. They will be hard to build and maintain and of course have the threat of fire being a huge danger. The more ambitious will build some of the warships more like a wet navy warship. Basically they become a arms race unto their own.

Yeah the Ottoman's would be pretty fucked. Anyone with access to mountainous regions which have had volcanic activity in their past will likely have some of the base material.

edited 29th Jul '11 11:39:02 AM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#328: Aug 1st 2011 at 2:46:42 PM

Excerpt from a small ship-to-ship action.


"Very well. Armor-piercing shells loaded into the secondary batteries?" Captain Carpenter asked.

"Yessir."

"Load up incendiaries into the aft main gun, and tell them we’ll be firing at point blank as they pass us to port. Bring up altitude to match them as best as possible, I don't want any plunging fire raining down on us."

The firing of secondary batteries opened up at six thousand yards, but neither ship had scored a definite hit on one another with even the main guns. But once the lighter weapons began to up the firing rate, the first definite impact was landed on Cincinnati, glancing off of her bow. A terrific crash was felt throughout the entire ship, but the shell didn’t detonate until it had passed clean through the bow and exiting near the keel, blowing up harmlessly a few hundred yards beneath them. The damage control parties reported back that there was a hole from the deck to the keel, and that the pneumatics for the forward stabilizer leg was a wreck. A dud shell from Antonio Oqueno gouged out some armor plate from Able Turret, but had no other effect. Finally, Antonio Oqueno suffered a hit near her bridge, throwing up a wall of splinters and deck debris into the face of the bridge. Glass windows, triple thick and reinforced, cracked under the impact of splinters, but otherwise had no effect. A small fire burned on the deck and a secondary gun in a pedestal mount was wrecked.

By three thousand yards, the hits were more regular – and more effective – with Antonio Oqueno taking on a slight list to starboard as one of her trim grids lost power, and the forward mast of Cincinnati being ruined by an impact at the base of the mast. It crumpled and collapsed rearward by the force of the hundred mile an hour winds, and the two crow’s mast lookouts were flung clear of the ship to their deaths, despite being secured to the mast by steel safety cables. Another impact on Antonio Oqueno by secondary guns blasted a huge hole in her after smokestack, and the result was a messy black cloud of coal smoke billowing out and obscuring half of the ship under the haze. This was followed by a secondary hit directly on the bridge of Antonio Oqueno, which obliterated it.

Carpenter saw the hit and it took him a few seconds to realize what had happened, and that it could very well happen in turn to him.

"Mr Orlman, take up command in the engineering room. Just in case you hear about the bridge getting eviscerated."

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#329: Aug 11th 2011 at 11:18:02 PM

I am tempted to make a thread for this on sd net containing the basics of the thread and having some of them help define it better.

Who watches the watchmen?
pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#330: Aug 12th 2011 at 5:46:55 PM

They certainly know their stuff, and there's a far more technical audience there, too.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#331: Aug 13th 2011 at 3:32:44 AM

I would want to avoid linking this thread over there though. They are not overly fond of tvtropes for various reasons.

Who watches the watchmen?
pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#332: Aug 15th 2011 at 12:45:40 PM

I guess you could always copy pasta the good bits, and wait for feedback?

Although if they're of the mindset that nothing good comes out of tvtropes and thus disregard your question simply because of that, chances are you will be better off without their input anyway. If someone is knowledgable about a specific field of study, they'll like sharing that information without getting all big-headed about it. However, if all they can say to you is "ewwww, a tvtropes scumbag, go play with your anime, freak", they probably didn't have much in terms of meanigful input into the discussion.

A knowedgable person will actually read the question, ponder the point and get back with you.

edited 15th Aug '11 12:52:21 PM by pvtnum11

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#333: Aug 15th 2011 at 1:50:14 PM

I have a different handle on their site and have not even mentioned tropes and do not plan to.

Who watches the watchmen?
GiantSpaceChinchilla Since: Oct, 2009
#334: Aug 15th 2011 at 3:47:09 PM

You may or may not want to mention that we’re not sure if the technological development of these airships would result in an alternative history. With the phasing out of rockets then missiles then rocket based space exploration and possibly computers, etc.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#335: Aug 15th 2011 at 3:56:14 PM

Well first I would run the lift system by them first.

Who watches the watchmen?
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#336: Sep 24th 2011 at 3:31:54 PM

After hanging around their fora for a bit. I have decided that they would ignore any interesting story potential and spend too much time bashing then hashing. They take too much of a hard science approach for me to even consider it there.

I want to come back to the idea of ship boarding actions. Ie say you disable one side of a ships guns or catch ship in a state where they are not able to properly engage enemy naval forces. We put forth the idea of a launch of some sort being sent. But considering we would essentially be boarding a sealed up ship possibly with small arms to repel torepedo boat class vessels how would we go about this?

Who watches the watchmen?
GiantSpaceChinchilla Since: Oct, 2009
#337: Sep 24th 2011 at 10:23:41 PM

I would think the launch would be best bet, especially if you can set up some-kind of breaching system, perhaps a charge and some kind of gantry. The launch itself would probably be fairly large not only because of the technological limitations of the technology but to match speed and three dimensional orientation with the assaulted ship. Or insulted as the case might be.

Alternatively you could set up a boom or plank system between the ships but that would be kind of hairy. Probably the best bet would be some kind of combination such as a tethered ship, gantry or articulated bridge.

Also, Air Marines would help. tongue

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#338: Oct 27th 2011 at 5:02:41 PM

Based on this ship and info from this page I have done a tenative write up of a common Aerial War Ship Design. I am unable to draw what I have in mind though.

For a very good idea of what the ships should look like do a google image search for the " Irong Grip Air Ships " sans quotation marks.

Private that thicker mid section we dicsussed early pretty much brings us to ship designs like the ones in Iron Grip. Differences for us though will be a lack of external propellers.

Who watches the watchmen?
Breakerchase Under the Double Eagle from Lemberg Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Under the Double Eagle
#339: Oct 27th 2011 at 10:31:56 PM

I haven't read the entire thread, but perhaps this may help you in some ideas, Tuefel?

Monsters in the Sky

edited 27th Oct '11 10:32:02 PM by Breakerchase

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#340: Oct 27th 2011 at 11:01:59 PM

Breaker; I am glad you did find the thread. I invite you to read the thread and give us your two cents. I am very interested in possible input. Also awesome link.

edited 27th Oct '11 11:02:15 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Breakerchase Under the Double Eagle from Lemberg Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Under the Double Eagle
#341: Oct 28th 2011 at 1:09:54 PM

I managed to save up some "hidden" Iron Grip concept art way back in the day, might be useful to better envision some stuff...

http://imageshack.us/g/408/iotd8.jpg/

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#342: Oct 28th 2011 at 4:36:38 PM

Breaker: Awesome again. :3

Ok the stats I hacked up. I had to attempt a balanced Ass Pull for the stats.

HMAS (His or Hers Majesties Aerial Ship) Sparrow Hawk


Dimensions: Bow to Stern 280 feet, Dorsal To Keel (tallest point of the ship to lowest point of the ship) 45 feet, Dorsal to Keel (Deck to Belly) 33 feet, Maximum Width 57 feet.
Lift: (Instead of displacement there is lift)
  • Maximum Lift (Most weight the ship can carry with 1 hours worth of fuel) 10,000 tons
  • Useful Load Lift (Maximum Weight with 3 days worth of Fuel: Excludes ammo) 7,000 Tons
  • Empty Lift (No weapons mounted, no cargo, no supplies other then 3 days fuel.) 17,000 tons
  • Combat Lift 800 Tons (3 Days Fuel, Supplies, and standard Ammo Load for the Ships guns)
    • Fuel Loads include both coal and water for running steam turbine generators.

Armament (Loosely based on sea borne ships)

  • Primary:Mounted In standard ships turrets One Fore one Aft in Two Barrel per turret configuration 6" 27 Caliber Mk12 Guns Max Elevation 80 Degrees Max Declination 40 Degrees max Rotation at Level 285 Degrees
  • Broadside Sponson Mounts 4 Guns Each gun in a single gun mount per Sponson. 8" 26 Caliber Mk 4 Naval Guns
Max Elevatrion 50 Degrees, Max Declination 67 Degrees, max Horizontal Movement 40 Degrees
  • 12 Single Gun Mounts on a fixed deck mounted turret 2" Anti-Lauch/Anti-Torpedo boat guns 5 Port and Starboard one Fore and One Aft
  • 3 Arbalest 12" Lift Engine Aerial Torepedo launchers. 3 Torpedos in magazine per launcher. 1 Launcher Fore, 1 Port, 1 Starboard.

Armour
  • Belt(Broadside armour from edge of deck to the edge of belly)6" Belt
  • Turret Armour: 8"
  • Sponson Armur 8.5"
  • Primary Dorsal Conning Tower 12"
  • Secondary Conning Tower 8"
  • Dorsal Conning Tower 5"
  • Deck: Dorsal and Ventral Surface 2"

Fuel Consumption: (No head wind or tail wind)
  • 20 tons an Hour Max Speed 69 Knots.
  • 14 tons Per Hour Cruising Speed 48 Knots
  • 8 Tons Per Hour Minimum flight capable speed 27 Knots
  • 4 Tons Per Hour Landing/Stable descent Speed 13 Knots

Power Plants

  • 8 Coal Fired Babacok and Wilcox Boiler Steam Turbine Generators.
  • 6 Samuel and Sons Warship Lifting and Propulsion Grids 4 centeral 1 Bow 1 Stern

Ballast and Balance System

  • Jrorgans Fluid Oil or Waer Pressurized Ballast systems

Common Shells carried are HE Naval Shells, Armour Piercing Naval Shells, White Phosphorus Shells, Illumination flare Shells.
Launches 2 Light weight 10 ton Aerial Launches Common armanent 2 machine gun Sponsons one on each side and one Machine gun in the fore section. Alternate Armament is 1" Light Cannon In nose and two sponson Machine Guns.

Crew 4. One Pilot, One Navigator/Gunner, Two Sponson gunners. Max carry compliment sans crew 12 men plus kit. estimated max speed 86 Knots.

Power Plant is 5 hour batteries charged on ship or at shore stations and Single Lift/Thrust Lifting grid built into frame.

Armour 1" Bow, .5 Inches Port and Starboard, No armour in rear.


Best I can do with some guess work and working with the link I posted earlier.

Who watches the watchmen?
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#343: Nov 24th 2011 at 4:07:44 PM

I think we have hashed the ideas out enough we can take stabs at making our own "ship specs"or at least try. We could even make an honest push into additional fiction if we chose too.

BTW those links to the game are rather handy.

Who watches the watchmen?
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#344: Dec 19th 2011 at 4:23:33 PM

Ok finally got this worked out. The difference between a Torpedo and a rocket will be Torpedo's are guided projectiles and Rockets are ballistcally aimed projectiles like with MLRS weapons in WWII.

Early torpedos will be primitive wireless or TOW style weapons. More advanced ones will use more advanced guidance controls ranging from radio guidance, radar guided via ship, or self guided fire and forget models.

Who watches the watchmen?
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#345: Apr 11th 2012 at 6:14:28 PM

So what strong but light alloys would be present in the late 19th early 20th century?

Who watches the watchmen?
Noaqiyeum we must dissent (it/they) from across the gulf of space (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
we must dissent (it/they)
#346: Apr 18th 2012 at 12:56:22 PM

I know that's before titanium, and I'm pretty sure it's before aluminium, too.

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TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#348: Apr 18th 2012 at 8:23:58 PM

Thanks guys. The timeframe for Aluminum ingeneral fits the time frame for the story in general.

Who watches the watchmen?
Noaqiyeum we must dissent (it/they) from across the gulf of space (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
dragonkingofthestars The Impenetrable. from Under the lonely mountain Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
The Impenetrable.
#350: Apr 23rd 2012 at 1:32:11 PM

I know you got the torpedo thing hashed out but may i throw my two cents on it?

Why don't you put wings on it? that way your torpedo gets out the tube or what ever with a rocket for thrust, and when the rocket cuts out it fly's or glide's a fixed distance with the wings.

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