Repair: They Changed It Now It Sucks

As it stands right now, this page and many other pages like it reek of The Complainer Is Always Wrong. It'd be nice if it could be modified to be a bit more neutral in that regard.

Honestly, I would lean towards 'nuke all examples in all fandom reaction tropes, period.'

Most of them seem to cover either individual troper reactions, not fandom reactions; or, more commonly, they're an individual troper whining about the reaction on one or two specific forums they visited. The diffuse nature of internet fandoms makes it almost impossible to say "the fandom reacted in this way!", most of the time — so we tend to get example lists composed of Troper Tales and extremely subjective assessments (often coming down to "everyone who didn't like my favorite show sucks and has invalid opinions" or "everyone who likes this show sucks and has invalid opinions.")

This title has brought 25,091 people to the wiki.

Also, it occurs to me: The description is contradictory.

The trope, as defined, is "fandoms bitching for no reason over a change that didn't matter." That's it's definition. I think that that is a bad definition and one that invites flamewars, but whatever. Obviously, implicit in that description is that if something is listed on this page, the person adding it is asserting that the change being bitched about was not for the worse.

Someone recognized this problem, so there's a note at the end saying "Note: This article lists examples which take place within fandoms of a work or series of works; not one's personal opinion as to whether a change is for the worse."

However, that contradicts the rest of the definition. Obviously, since the trope is defined as 'insane hardcore fans who bitch over nothing', people will only list examples where they feel the change is at most inconsequential and, often, for the better. If you feel that a change is for the worse, then it doesn't fit the trope definition!

In consideration of that, I'm going to say that the entire trope should be deleted or flushed to Darth Wiki. Tropes Are Not Bad, and this is the very definition of a 'complaining about fan reactions that I think are bad' trope.

edited 24th Oct '10 1:04:50 PM by Aquillion

Really, most of the tropes in this index have the same problem.

That's kind of the problem with most subjective tropes.

This title has brought 25, 091 people to the wiki.

Unpleasable Fanbase has similar numbers (17,864), but that didn't stop Fast Eddie from locking it down.

The point, which Eddie has pointed out elsewhere, is to put Complaining About Complaining on pages like this (as with Ruined Forever), to keep it off the main pages, same as Wall Banger and Dethroning Moment Of Suck are to keep straight up Complaining off the main pages (but still done in a somewhat constructive way other than trolling).

edited 24th Oct '10 1:31:47 PM by DragonQuestZ

The opening description could be shaped up, at least. I mean:

As long as it is still the same basic story and keeps all the best bits and characters intact, then it doesn't matter too much that Bob's bald, Alice doesn't die, the football game ended with a different score, and they cut the watermelon scene, right? It's a bit of a shame they screwed that bit up, but really, it's not as if the entire work is ruined forever, right?

Wrong!

...or so you would be told by many, many a fan.

And don't you dare suggest that in changing it they made it better.

Also, the fact that its example image is from Ctrl-Alt-Del doesn't help its case, because we all know how much of an astute and effective satire that is.

The source of the image is irrelevant. The point is that it illustrates the trope. I know, because that was the picture agreed upon in an old thread.

Ruined FOREVER illustrates fans complaining about a show they haven't watched yet.

This seems like a good candidate for Example Sectionectomy.

edited 25th Oct '10 6:43:14 PM by RocketScience

"Ruined FOREVER illustrates fans complaining about a show they haven't watched yet."

No, that's Complaining About Shows You Don't Watch.

They Changed It, Now It Sucks!: "No change is too small or irrelevant for fans to complain about."

Ruined Forever: "It's never too soon after a change for the fans to declare that it has ruined the series."

Complaining About Shows You Don't Watch: "In fact, fans don't even need any firsthand knowledge of a series to know with complete certainty that it stinks."

edited 25th Oct '10 9:42:21 PM by MetaFour

"Said complaints are never valid" is the message I get from these pages.

edited 25th Oct '10 10:08:17 PM by DonZabu

Well, it's not the policy of the page itself, but I'm of the opinion that Sturgeon's Law applies to complaints just like everything else.

So why were the pages Fan Hater and Unpleasable Fanbase given the Example Sectionectomy treatment while similar pages already mentioned were left intact? Unless I'm missing something, that seems a little arbitrary.

edited 25th Oct '10 11:00:56 PM by SpellBlade

I tell ya what'd be good: demand a specific example of the supposed reaction for every trope like this listed in a page. Otherwise examples like this:

Complaining About Shows You Dont Watch: A large number of people who claim to not like GURPS have clearly never played the game or read the rule book, but are just loosely repeating some stuff they heard other people say, judging by what they say.

edited 26th Oct '10 12:05:57 AM by DonZabu

^^ Because we deal with pages as they are called into question.

This page is(was) not an example of the complainer is always wrong, it was an example of when the complainers were wrong. We already had pages that covered when changes were made for the worse. Such as Seasonal Rot, and Adaptation Decay, so I'm asking permission to change this page back the way it was.(as weird as that request is).

edited 27th Oct '10 5:56:25 PM by Cider

@Don: Feel free to delete such instances on works pages, since subjective tropes have no place there.

just for clarification purposes:

• subjectives should not be deleted willy-nilly, instead they should be moved to the work's YMMV tab.

• Adaptation Decay should not, in theory, be judgement on whether an adaptation was better or worse than the original. it should be a measure of how many important key points of the original were cut, left out or changed when it was adapted.

And these pages have indeed been called into question.

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