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Redefining a Name: Testosterone Poisoning

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KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#1: Sep 10th 2010 at 12:37:21 AM

On a slightly unrelated note, I've made this topic before but it's listing in the trope repair shop and any forum searching engine seems to indicate it has been lost to the Data Vampires. An easy copy-paste from hitting the back button and...

Currently, there is not actual difference between Testosterone Poisoning and Rated M for Manly. The official dividing line is that Rated M For Manly is manliness played straight and Testosterone Poisoning is the parody of it, but that is an awfully arbitrary seperation (see Poe's Law). And it seems that quite a few examples are being shared between them so it isn't so obvious which is which.

Rated M for Manly should be anything that is manly, be it parodied, played straight or subverted, that's what the Playing With Wiki is about. I think Testosterone Poisoning should be about two guys having an excessively heated arguing over: a girl, who is right, who is superior, etc. Basically a clash of ego's.

I can already list a few examples, none of which would ever go into Rated M for Manly:

edited 10th Sep '10 12:38:14 AM by KJMackley

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#2: Sep 10th 2010 at 12:45:53 AM

Completely redefining tropes is only a good idea if the name is consistently misused in a specific way. Otherwise most people will miss that the trope has been changed and we'll have a mess on our hands.

SeanTucker Since: Dec, 1969
#3: Sep 29th 2010 at 5:48:18 PM

If we're gonna merge Rated M for Manly and Testosterone Poisoning, the page image and quotes from Testosterone Poisoning take priority.

Seriously, those are made of so, so much win.

SeanTucker Since: Dec, 1969
#4: Sep 29th 2010 at 5:48:28 PM

If we're gonna merge Rated M for Manly and Testosterone Poisoning, the page image and quotes from Testosterone Poisoning take priority.

Seriously, those are made of so, so much win.

JBridge null from Alameda, CA Since: Jan, 2001
null
#5: Nov 1st 2010 at 1:07:00 AM

Clash Of Egos

There. Go make the trope. I see no need to overhaul Testosterone Poisoning just to make way for a new trope.

There's no space in the name.
BigT grimAuxiliatrix Since: Jan, 2001
grimAuxiliatrix
#6: Nov 1st 2010 at 1:10:21 AM

The point is that the two tropes mentioned in the OP are currently not well divided. All your solutions means is that testosterone poisoning (or Rated M for Manly) wouldn't exist. You aren't saving anything.

Everyone Has An Important Job To Do
JBridge null from Alameda, CA Since: Jan, 2001
null
#7: Nov 1st 2010 at 1:19:47 AM

I see nothing wrong with the existing tropes. Testosterone Poisoning is Rated M For Manly played for humor. The tropes are distinct enough to warrant separate articles, so I see no need to ax one. Besides, the redirects for Testosterone Poisoning are awesome.

There's no space in the name.
RocketScience Not dead yet. from a dark place Since: Jan, 2001
Not dead yet.
#8: Nov 1st 2010 at 2:43:00 AM

Is the act of parodying Rated M for Manly so prolific that it qualifies as a child trope?

Judging by the number of examples, I'd say that's a yes.

edited 1st Nov '10 2:44:12 AM by RocketScience

Stratadrake Dragon Writer Since: Oct, 2009
Dragon Writer
#9: Nov 1st 2010 at 5:58:32 AM

OP argues that there's a high number of duplicate examples, suggesting it's more The Same But More than an actual Sub-Trope.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#10: Nov 1st 2010 at 6:29:26 AM

Then this would need a bit of sorting and write up clean up I don't think it needs any more than that.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#11: Nov 1st 2010 at 6:47:03 AM

Judging by the names, I'd say one is a description of a work, the other is a character. Similar to the division between Large Ham and World of Ham.

edited 1st Nov '10 6:47:43 AM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.
Ravenqueen from the Netherlands Since: Oct, 2009
#12: Nov 1st 2010 at 7:55:48 AM

[up][up][up]

That's not the difference between the two tropes. Testosterone Poisoning is for parodies and Rated M for Manly is for straight examples.

I don't think these tropes should be merged. It seems to work pretty well as is, and there are so many parodies that you'd need to put them under a separate header anyway.

Credits to Slightly Damned for the avatar.
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#13: Nov 1st 2010 at 9:19:20 AM

I agree it's hard to tell the difference, and the names and pictures of both tropes don't help.

Sure one could argue that the name Testosterone Poisoning is a joke to be poisoned by testosterone, but that in itself does not say "parody". Conversely Rated M for Manly also seems like a spoof name. It's so tongue in cheek that on the ykttw for it, many of us thought it was just a duplicate of Testosterone Poisoning at first.

The pictures are just as bad. The Testosterone Poisoning one doesn't say "parody" at all. It should be on the Rated M for Manly page. Duke Nukem on the other hand is part spoof, but it's on the serious trope page.

edited 1st Nov '10 9:20:55 AM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#14: Nov 1st 2010 at 9:24:33 AM

Really? I'd say the pic on Testosterone Poisoning is quite obviously comedically exaggerated. The pic on Rated M for Manly, admittedly, needs to be replaced with a straight example.

What's precedent ever done for us?
mmysqueeant I'm A Dirty Cowboy from Essairrrrcks Since: Oct, 2010
I'm A Dirty Cowboy
#15: Nov 1st 2010 at 9:47:33 AM

I got really confused by the difference as soon as I opened 'M for Manly'.

It seems that Testosterone Poisoning is for parodies of "Macho" trends, while M for Manly is for parodies of "Manly" trends as the name suggests, rather than M for Manly being straight examples. That's the only way I can explain many of the examples.

The ones that DO fit the parody/played straight split (something about G Gundam, 300, that kind of thing - they're actually pretty rare, as there are so many parodies on the Rated M for Manly page that even Team America has been included...), they're generally what I would call Testosterone Poisoning. Big and dumb.

Whatever the intentions of it, they're inextricably linked. I think having two pages like this is needlessly confusing, and many of the examples are revealing the subjectivity of Parody.

edited 1st Nov '10 9:58:00 AM by mmysqueeant

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#16: Nov 1st 2010 at 10:07:06 AM

"I'd say the pic on Testosterone Poisoning is quite obviously comedically exaggerated."

How? Have you not seen all the straight examples of stuff like that? I have.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Shale Since: Jan, 2001
#17: Nov 1st 2010 at 10:16:32 AM

Even with Poe's Law firmly in mind, I can't think of any possible situation where I would assume that Saxton Hale's Gorilla-Stabbin' Adventures (Where A Gorilla Will Die On Every Page!) is a straight example of anything. Ever.

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#18: Nov 1st 2010 at 10:20:39 AM

[up]Which is such a small part of the picture that I didn't even notice it until now. I kind of wonder if that's the case with other people. At the very least the picture should be cropped to make that more prominent.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#19: Nov 1st 2010 at 11:18:46 AM

The problem goes straight to the fact that miniscule differences between tropes leads to redundant pages because the average editor (regular troper or not) are not always familiar with the particulars. This issue goes right back to the original YKTTW, so Testosterone Poisoning was kind of screwed at the beginning.

Having a seperate page of parody examples is like having a seperate page of subverted examples, it's not how we organize tropes. Both tropes may be used for the proper genre (manly things) but that doesn't mean the general wiki isn't confused over what they are.

edited 1st Nov '10 11:19:38 AM by KJMackley

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#20: Nov 1st 2010 at 11:24:06 AM

Having a separate page of parody examples is like having a separate page of subverted examples, it's not how we organize tropes.

We do have separate pages for subversions if the example list gets large enough.

Fight smart, not fair.
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#21: Nov 1st 2010 at 11:38:27 AM

Although, as noted, parodies for this kind of trope are not as easy to tell from one another.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
DrStarky Okay Guy from Corn And Pig Land Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
#22: Nov 13th 2010 at 2:50:34 PM

We don't need a whole page for parodied examples. One page should cover both. But which one?

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
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