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I've never played Dead Rising, so I wouldn't know. I'd be complaining about that too, though. Why fix what isn't broken?
^^ -taking notes- So, would that be Kobayashi, or...?
I think the biggest problem with DMC 4 was allowing Dante to use everything all at once.
There was a certain elegance to DMC 3 in how you'd start a mission with one style, two guns, and two swords, the weapons switchable with the touch of a button. But in 4, you're expected to switch styles while playing, and you have to cycle through 3 separate weapons per category.
The style switching I thought was fine (except for being somewhat unintuitive). The triple-weapon set-up was a problem.
With two weapons in each hand I know what I'm using at the time and thus what I'm capable of. With three, I have to glance at the side of the screen to figure that out. Worse yet, Lucifer and Gilgamesh have similar coloring (red-grey), so I have to stare for a second longer than necessary. Color-coding is important, Cap Com.
I was hoping that if they were going to add GoW-like cinematic segments, there would at least be some interaction with them like GoW. There wasn't. Just the same Buster attack (albeit, a new one for certain enemies) differing based on weather you're in DT or not. Bad design overall.
edited 3rd May '10 2:58:26 PM by Alucard
.... and I still don't like the Proud Soul system for buying abilities. Why would the player need to purchase being able to run faster?
Because you are forced to play longer and go through the same mission again and again to get the unlocks.
Also the snake-lady in the jungle is glitched since I was able to farm her for an absolute metric ton of points with no problem just by doing basic attacks.
I'll like this game soon as I find the ****ing block button.
DMC is about dodging, not blocking.
Unless you use Royal Guard in 3 and half of 4.
edited 6th May '10 7:40:34 PM by JotunofBoredom
When the dodging insists on taking its sweet time in doing what I say, and even then simply dodging randomly, thats not really sticking to a strength.
Really? I don't remember it being too unresponsive or random.
Then again I've been binging on Bayonetta between ever other game and the dodging that is just so responsive.
Maybe I'll play DMC 4 again.
DMC4 had Nero's quick-dodge-and-counter move that was wonky as hell, but the standard dodge is pretty simple.
Meh, I stil Like Bayonetta more then Devil may cry recently too. Maybe its that most of the bosses are bigger, the enemies are harder to fight and the dodge mechanic is made even more vital on your survival, and the fact that Kamiya stated that Bayonetta was intended to be stronger than Dante. And the fact that he made a hard as shit optional boss in Bayonetta, too.
edited 7th May '10 1:50:18 PM by Demongodofchaos
Also: Dodge Offset. Better boss refights. When you lose a life it's more your fault than the game's (whether through glitching or some crap AI), leading to you actually needing to improve your technique rather than resist tossing the controller at the screen or exploiting I-frames.
Also, Bayonetta >>>>> Dante. I'd like to see him do something comparable to headbutting a skyscraper, or playing hot potato with a cruise missile, or getting crushed flat by a Golem then re-inflating himself like a cartoon character. Well, he probably can't survive getting crushed, or else we would have seen something like that in 4. Would've been funny, though. Those other two things still need doing. >_>
But see, that's the thing. Yeah, Bayonetta can do all that stuff, but it made her seem less badass to me. She was basically a Boring Invincible Hero; I never felt like she was truly in any danger from anything she faced, outside of my fumbling around and failing.
Dante, on the other hand, makes a career out of taking on things tougher than him and winning. Any one of the major demons he fights could reduce him to a fine paste if he wasn't so good at what he does. That's cooler, in my book.
Really? I never got the feel of Dante being weak in any of the games.
He did manage to hold of the Savior's punches in DMC 4 with just his sword, after all.
So could any of the Massive Titan Angels Bayonetta could fight could do the same. Have you seen the Size of Them. They are pretty the same size as The Savior Statue at their Smallest.
edited 7th May '10 6:15:56 PM by Demongodofchaos
Weak, no, but he generally stayed within the realms of reason. Nothing he did never came off as blatantly unrealistically as Bayonetta. I mean, c'mon, she punched what's-it-called, Jubileus, from Pluto all the way to the freaking sun. That's just too over the top.
And demongodofchaos just succinctly proved my point. Every major enemy that Bayonetta fights is roughly the size of the Savior. At minimum. And all of the main bosses shows up as a Degraded Boss later. Dante, every boss kill felt like it meant something, like it took effort. With Bayonetta, it was like "eh, no big deal, it's not like these guys were particularly powerful the first time anyway", and then she kicks their asses again, and again, and suddenly the boss fights hardly seem like they mattered.
edited 7th May '10 6:22:56 PM by Theoneknownasme
Its meant to be. This isn't supposed to take it self seriously. Just like The original Devil May Cry didn't. Then Hidkei Kamiya left and you know what happened after wards. I like To call Bayonetta Devil May Cry Meets Viewtiful Joe meets Okami, Meets Gurrenlagann. Jubileus was a god, anyhow. Dante Fought Mundus, The FUCKING DEVIl.
Dante was meant to be campy, But 2 failed, 3 did fine with it, but 4 also failed by having Nero, not that he was a bad character, just felt lik ehe didn't belong in the DMC series.
To some people, Bayonetta would be what Devil May Cry would be like if Hideki Kamiya made more Devil May Cry related material.
edited 7th May '10 6:25:51 PM by Demongodofchaos
But there's a threshold where it stops being "not taking itself seriously" and crosses over right into self-parody. DMC 1 didn't take itself seriously. DMC 3 didn't take itself particularly seriously. DMC 4, Nero took himself seriously, but Dante sure didn't.
Bayonetta's just too much in every aspect for my tastes. Other people like it, fine, no problem with me. But I'm gonna stick with Dante and co. They're more interesting to me.
Its only the first game, anyhow. Try to stay with it for a little while and play anymore games first before hand. Besides I like all the References Bayonetta Had, too. Not just to many of Hidkei Kamiya's Capcom games, but to Sega games, too. Like Space Harrier, Zillions, After Burner, The Aforementioned sonic rings as halos. Hell Even an Evangelion Reference where the Affinities look lik eThe Mass Production Evas from End Of Evangelion.
edited 7th May '10 6:29:18 PM by Demongodofchaos
You're not getting me. Bayonetta is already unappealing to me. Any sequels are going to be more of the same, if not The Same But More. he series premise strains my Willing Suspension of Disbelief as far as it can go, and everything else just shatters it.
The game played well. I'm not saying it didn't. But competent controls aren't all that I look for in a game. Some people, that's all they need, and that's cool. But it's not for me.
I realized when I first saw Bayonetta that disbelief would not be necessary for the next 50 hours.
But yeah, to each his own(though I wouldn't call the combat just competent).
Now, I like Bayonetta and Devil May Cry in their own ways, though there are things I feel one holds above the other. Bayonetta's dodging mechanic is excellent, but I think how you execute moves in DMC is much more intuitive, what with only needing one button to execute excluding the lock-on button (the only multi-button attacks belong to Nero, it's only two buttons pressed simultaneously). Wait, did I already mention this? Also, the inclusion of QTEs in Bayonetta was not something I liked.
Oh, and both series are crazy awesome in their own ways.
I disagree with Bayonetta doesn't take itself seriously. I think they were definitely trying to go for a DMC 3-THIS PARTIES GETTIN CRAZEE type approach, but at the same time trying to have a semi-dramatic feel to everything, just like Okami and God Hand. They were trying to have their cake and eat it too (I hate that prhrase).
...Hard to describe what the problem is for me... essentially, they didn't know when to be serious, when to be funny and especially didn't know how to transition between the two. It's happened with every game Clover/Platinum has made, which makes me think they need to hire a new writer...
...and Suda51, for all his talent in making interesting characters, settings, plot elements, etc., isn't as great a gameplay designer as I'd like. I think the two companies would do excellently with a merger.
Your main character is wearing her hair as clothing. You're not supposed to take that seriously ever.
Both Bayonetta and Dante just seemed wholy unlikeable to me, but they felt as if they weren't designed that way. Someone thought I actually would like these people, which just makes it worse.
edited 7th May '10 11:01:12 PM by IndigoDingo
Yeah, maybe not so much seriously, but... cool? That's it, it couldn't decide whether it was supposed to be something so cheesy that it became funny (ala DMC 3) or was genuinely trying to be awesome. Extremely subjective judgment call there.
Even if I am never supposed to take it seriously, I fell like there was an attempt at injecting drama near the end.
Still loved the game though. I am glad everyone appreciated the dodge mechanic for how genius it is.
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