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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#41376: Oct 31st 2021 at 5:49:04 PM

Fallout 4 Brotherhood probably would be the worst if it didn't have to compete with the Enclave and the Legion for that "honor".

Disgusted, but not surprised
Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#41377: Oct 31st 2021 at 5:52:04 PM

"Least terrible" != "not terrible", after all.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#41378: Oct 31st 2021 at 5:56:44 PM

They would also be way worse if two things weren't true in the Fallout universe:

  1. Ghouls could go feral at a rate that vastly exceeds the chance of a random person going a similar route.
  2. Synths A) can replace anyone or be anyone, and B) they're made by a secret MAD SCIENCE lab and who knows what they might have planned. Or do. Who knows what'll happen if they got a decent radio transmitter and funny ideas.

Still assholes, but at least they have something of a point. The tech-hoarding, though, never goes well.

Edited by RainehDaze on Oct 31st 2021 at 12:58:11 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#41379: Oct 31st 2021 at 6:04:46 PM

The idea that people only like the Brotherhood for its Powered Armor also doesn't work considering it isn't even the faction with the most advanced Powered Armor and plasma weaponry.

That would be the Enclave. It is the Enclave who had the biggest proverbial stick since they actually still kept all of that old world tech.

[up]The tech-hoarding and other shit is bad enough that House, a man with plenty of his own issues, isn't wrong to deride them as "ridiculous".

Edited by M84 on Oct 31st 2021 at 9:06:39 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#41380: Oct 31st 2021 at 6:35:45 PM

The Enclave has no shortage of fanboys, yes. And given they have no depth whatsoever, the only appeal they have is pew pew and power armor.

The Brotherhood combines that superficial appeal with being less mustache twirling and one-dimensional. Not much more, mind you. It's still basically that picture of Caesar and Father where Caesar has a long explanation for why he is doing what he's doing and Father just has one lazy sentence. Simply substitute Shaun for Arthur Maxson.

Edited by Nikkolas on Oct 31st 2021 at 6:39:41 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#41381: Oct 31st 2021 at 7:17:43 PM

That's just the writers putting in some more effort in NV. And it helps send the message that Caesar is really full of himself and likes to hear himself speak. One of the things you gotta realize about Caesar is that he's got a Surrounded by Idiots mindset concerning the rest of the Legion (mostly his fault due to the whole slave mindset thing) and really wants someone with whom he can hold a somewhat intelligent conversation.

Edited by M84 on Oct 31st 2021 at 10:19:06 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41382: Oct 31st 2021 at 7:26:33 PM

It's been a while, but how well does Caesar take to being criticized by the Courier or Arcade?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#41383: Oct 31st 2021 at 7:30:02 PM

He gets angry. And/or refuses to keep talking.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41384: Oct 31st 2021 at 7:31:57 PM

So Caesar just wants intelligent yes-men.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#41385: Oct 31st 2021 at 7:42:54 PM

Yep, what he wants is intellectual validation. He can't really get that from his army of slave-worshipers because he doesn't remotely respect them.

What he wants is someone whose intelligence he actually respects telling him he's right.

Edited by M84 on Oct 31st 2021 at 10:55:12 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#41386: Oct 31st 2021 at 7:50:51 PM

I mean he's a narcissistic dictator who literally made himself a god of a cult of brainwashed slaves.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41387: Oct 31st 2021 at 7:59:11 PM

[up][up] I recall hearing a saying, that respect you get from people you view below you isn't as fulfilling as respect from someone you see as an equal or above you.

I'm thinking of how exactly Caesar treated Arcade if he was sold. Like how would Caesar convince him to embrace the Legion?

I can't see the usual brute force method.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 31st 2021 at 11:00:27 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#41388: Oct 31st 2021 at 8:08:56 PM

[up]He obviously couldn't figure out a way to convince Arcade considering how that ending plays out.

Edited by M84 on Oct 31st 2021 at 11:10:15 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41389: Oct 31st 2021 at 8:09:36 PM

I mean yeah, but like how do you think Caesar would try to convince him, as futile as it is?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#41390: Oct 31st 2021 at 8:11:31 PM

Probably with a lot of improper quoting of Roman philosophers and politicians.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41391: Oct 31st 2021 at 8:14:55 PM

Shots fired.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#41392: Oct 31st 2021 at 8:58:31 PM

I don't think Caesar would bother trying to convince Arcade. The whole appeal of Arcade to Caesar would be as a fellow Follower of the Apocalypse, Caesar has someone who is an intellectual peer. He would be very open that the Legion is a Scam Religion.

Part of why you're off the chopping block is Caesar does like someone appreciate his Evil Scheme.

He might say the ends justify the means but basically Caesar would like he could gloat about it all to someone who could appreciate it.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 31st 2021 at 8:59:32 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#41393: Oct 31st 2021 at 9:26:40 PM

[up]which is exactly what happens in Arcade's ending if you sell him to Caesar. he becomes Caesar's intellectual sparring partner, and Caesar actually grows to like him and enjoy his company.

Arcade eventually disembowels himself with a scalpel, so you can guess how he felt about the whole thing.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#41394: Nov 1st 2021 at 6:45:47 AM

"That's just the writers putting in some more effort in NV. And it helps send the message that Caesar is really full of himself and likes to hear himself speak. One of the things you gotta realize about Caesar is that he's got a Surrounded by Idiots mindset concerning the rest of the Legion (mostly his fault due to the whole slave mindset thing) and really wants someone with whom he can hold a somewhat intelligent conversation."

Sure, all that is good writing and gives him a depth lacking in the others.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#41395: Nov 1st 2021 at 6:50:26 AM

Nah, the briefness of Father’s explanation also highlights his character as a guy with stunted emotional growth due to being raised by the Institute. It shows a lack of social skills.

He shows what a human being might be like if raised in seclusion by a bunch of mad scientists.

Edited by M84 on Nov 1st 2021 at 9:51:29 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41396: Nov 1st 2021 at 6:53:18 AM

The Institute is basically what you get if people shat on social sciences.

Not so useless anymore ehh?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#41397: Nov 1st 2021 at 6:58:19 AM

Given that literally nothing about the Institute's plans or actions makes sense, I'm not willing to read a positive spin into one example of bad writing on a mountain of it.

The Think Tank are more logical than the Institute, and they're supposed to be total jokes while the Institute is basically the main villain of FO 4.

Edited by Nikkolas on Nov 1st 2021 at 6:58:55 AM

ultimate_life_form Since: Aug, 2019
#41398: Nov 1st 2021 at 7:28:54 AM

Would love an alternate 4 with The Think Tank replacing The Institute

SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#41399: Nov 1st 2021 at 8:32:54 AM

Enclave are still villain group they shouldn't have brought back after Fallout 2, just like how Master never got brought back <_<

PRC4Eva Since: Jan, 2001
#41400: Nov 1st 2021 at 8:41:33 AM

Just took a roadtrip around Arizona/Utah. Zion is real pretty. Crush the White Legs is the only valid Honest Hearts ending. Screw "preserving the Sorrows' innocence" or whatever, that place is too nice to just give up to the Legion.

We did stop in Vegas on the way, unfortunately I chose to stuff myself silly at the buffet there and thus did not stop at Goodsprings for a meal and a drink at the saloon. We did stop by the Primm Bison hotel/casino place with the roller coaster, though.


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