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Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay
it's a living
Oct 22nd 2021 at 5:53:35 PM

No, they do mean the front desk. If you're looking for Elsa(?) Jeannie May, she's probably gone home to bed, since Boone's on the night shift. One of the houses outside of Novac's gates.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 22nd 2021 at 6:54:18 AM

RAlexa21th Cuteness lover from California Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Cuteness lover
Oct 22nd 2021 at 5:56:01 PM

I'm looking for the evidence in the lobby. Jeanne is indeed the prime suspect since she is wrong about the wife's cause of disappearance when she should know it best.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Oct 22nd 2021 at 5:56:59 AM

Some day, one day, we'll say "live life," I know.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay
it's a living
Oct 22nd 2021 at 6:02:09 PM

*nods* You're on the right track. If you've found the front desk, that's also the lobby. If you need a hint: there's a safe in the floor, iirc.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 22nd 2021 at 7:02:50 AM

RAlexa21th Cuteness lover from California Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Cuteness lover
Oct 22nd 2021 at 6:19:43 PM

By the way, I made Primm slim the sheriff. Doesn't seem to qualify but I trust him more than NCR and Beagle.

Some day, one day, we'll say "live life," I know.
MisterTambourineMan The Tender of Blooms from Under a tree Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
The Tender of Blooms
Oct 22nd 2021 at 6:25:51 PM

When it came to the Novac quest, I actually got the culprit killed before I found the incriminating evidence.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay
it's a living
Oct 22nd 2021 at 6:40:07 PM

I like Novac, not so much as a classic murder mystery, but as a series of interlocking quests that all point at each other. It has a nicely organic feel.

Slim is the best choice for sheriff, hands down.

Nikkolas from Texas Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Oct 22nd 2021 at 8:16:29 PM

The NCR is obviously doing a lot of valuable construction. Don't you remember how a faction in NV is a bunch of escaped convicts the NCR gave dynamite as part of their forced penal servitude?

And if you're against a dictator subverting democracy being portrayed sympathetically, what about House? It comes up every time. People even advocate eliminating the Legion as a joinable faction altogether, but House can stay and be presented as the magic capitalist savior of humanity as he kills and fucks over everyone.

Edited by Nikkolas on Oct 22nd 2021 at 8:18:27 AM

MisterTambourineMan The Tender of Blooms from Under a tree Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
The Tender of Blooms
Oct 22nd 2021 at 8:27:42 PM

[up] As far as I know, the Wild Card ending is specifically set up as the ideal ending, with the NCR being much better than the Legion but still worse than Wild Card. And there are many, many characters who criticize the NCR. I'm not sure the devs were that hot on democracy.

Honestly, between the "no government is best", the constant refrain of "taxes bad", and the Boomers' whole message of "it's good for society to be armed to the teeth", this game feels like it has a libertarian bent.

Edited by MisterTambourineMan on Oct 22nd 2021 at 8:42:45 AM

Nikkolas from Texas Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Oct 22nd 2021 at 8:43:56 PM

The Wild Card ending can be the most democratic of all of them depending on how you go about it. The Mojave rules itself as a collection of independent settlements instead of being taken over by an imperialistic state. Anarchists generally think of themselves as true democrats, as opposedto liberal democracy, which, with all its flaws, is on full display with the NCR.

Regardless, I don't think New Vegas has a pro or anti democracy standpoint. I think it is very even-handed and fair with all sides.

Oct 22nd 2021 at 8:46:50 PM

[up][up] In fairness to the Boomers, being armed to the teeth is sensible when you're living in a place full of predatory mutants and bloodthirsty raiders.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay
it's a living
Oct 22nd 2021 at 8:50:47 PM

Eh. I remember the interviews Josh Sawyer gave back when the game was in development, and having also played Pillars of Eternity, the impression I came away with was that they are very passionate about democracy and America in terms of what they could be. They criticize it as harshly as they do because they don't see it living up to its potential. Or so it always seemed to me.

The big problem with the NCR is that they're colonizing the Mojave in a way that is deeply undemocratic. If Wild Card is golden, I think it's because it's the biggest compromise. That also makes it the most temporary, the most fragile. But I don't think that's necessarily a permanent problem, insofar as it's meant to be a starting point, not a final state. The NCR doesn't even need to go away forever, but it would be bad for them to get away with occupying the Mojave without any regard for the people already living there. Once the Mojave can stand on its own, and the NCR could still help them do it, then a true golden ending might see them formally invited into something like the Re-United States that the NCR is theoretically trying to build.

There's always going to be a libertarian bent to any western. That's kind of where a lot of that rhetoric comes from. But I think the game acknowledges that the frontier doesn't last forever, and shouldn't. Even Wild Card is only really golden if you manage to tone down the Boomers and Khans, and bring all these disparate groups into a loose coalition. In that sense it's a very big government moral — but the people who complain about big government are often actually complaining about government that they feel doesn't represent them, doesn't see them, doesn't pay attention to the finer details. Big picture government. So I think ultimately the criticism becomes about lack of representation, and in a roundabout way, lack of understanding. All these problems could be solved if people could just communicate. But they can't or won't. So you need a Courier, a messenger, and, ultimately, a diplomat.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 22nd 2021 at 10:17:39 AM

M84 Despite everything, it's still you from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Despite everything, it's still you
Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:05:51 PM

All these problems could be solved if people could just communicate.

Except the Legion of course. The only communication that's possible with a slaver regime is "Stay the fuck out". Backed with superior firepower.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay
it's a living
Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:10:15 PM

Oh, sure. Not actually including House, either. It's not a problem of understanding in his case. He's just too arrogant, at this point. If he could just share all his knowledge and insight without the need to rule everything... but he can't.

But I do actually appreciate when a game that lets you talk your way through so much puts its foot down and says no, this person will not be swayed.

RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:20:02 PM

Funny how you can actually convince Lanius to stand down.

Such as citing how Rome fell.

M84 Despite everything, it's still you from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Despite everything, it's still you
Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:21:50 PM

By contrast, you cannot talk down Fallout 2's Final Boss Frank Horrigan. Because unlike Lanius who actually puts a little thought into the Legion's worldview he completely buys into the Enclave's genocidal worldview and doesn't care to think any deeper about it. Lanius also isn't completely certain of the Legion's chances, while Frank Horrigan remained confident that the Enclave would win no matter how badly The Chosen One fucked things up for them.

Basically, Lanius is a vicious monster, while Frank Horrigan was a vicious idiot monster.

And of course, even talking down Lanius is simply the Courier telling him to stay the fuck out and point out that the Legion isn't going to win.

Edited by M84 on Oct 23rd 2021 at 12:36:07 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay
it's a living
Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:39:56 PM

Lanius isn't actually as dumb as people give him credit for — it's part of his legend, his mystique, that he is an unthinking beast. Whereas Frank is somehow even dumber than you expect. Maybe people in the Enclave are just too terrified to say so? That and 2 is not always big on nuance. But I think the riff on a similar concept was deliberate. It usually is, with Obsidian.

SilentColossus Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:39:57 PM

I feel like that sort of goes with "slave." Not that it's not true but slaving societies by nature are at the bottom of the rung rights wise and your life will suck if you are one.

No matter how common in history.

Sure, but if you're arguing about the difference between the freedoms of women in Sparta and Athens, it must be kept in mind that the majority of women under Spartan control would be those helots.

(Here is an interesting article discussing Spartan women. And helot women, and why you cannot claim Spartan women had more rights without mentioning the massive enslaved population of women who did not have those rights.)

But we're getting off topic, I think. I mostly compared the Legion to Sparta because I find the fact that the Legion values men for fighting and women for child rearing somewhat similar. Unlike Sparta, the Legion considers things like cooking, cleaning, farming, textiles, ect. to also be proper work for a woman, while Sparta would consider that slave work.

Edited by SilentColossus on Oct 22nd 2021 at 1:01:52 PM

deludedmusings Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:43:10 PM

From the descriptions Sawayer has used when talking about the Legion, the similarities are intentional.

Oct 23rd 2021 at 12:43:44 AM

There's a certain irony to House that I wish you could point out. Specifically, that if House were to RUN as the President of New Vegas, he'd probably win. The people are happy, satisfied with what he's doing, and prosperous under the New Vegas he's created. The Chairmen and White Glove Society are genuinely loyal. Even the Omerta aren't too unsatisfied.

(Minus the Gomorroh's slaves)

House is so determined to rule autocratically, though, he misses he doesn't need too and his plotting against NCR because he thinks they're going to kill him is what results in them plotting to kill him.

It's why I liked the Good Karma House ending because House realizes his agent is making a lot of the decisions that turn out to be better than the ones he would make as a cynical misanthrope.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 23rd 2021 at 12:44:31 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Oct 23rd 2021 at 4:58:13 AM

To House though, while the proof of adulation might be appealing, a control freak like him wouldn't never even let the possibility of losing Vegas to anyone else happen in fair election, so no democracy there. Plus who else could possibly run against him? King?

He has a precise and strict vision for New Vegas and for humanity, democracy would get in the way of that, I CAN see him in his dying days, entrust it to the Courier but otherwise, as long as he lives, New Vegas is HIS.

Besides, he has a low opinion on democracy, even the corrupt rigged version in the old world. Not sure if he knew about the Enclave back then, but it's certainly possible.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 23rd 2021 at 7:59:23 AM

RAlexa21th Cuteness lover from California Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Cuteness lover
Oct 23rd 2021 at 5:21:00 AM

The feral ghouls are too scary for me. These guys are pathetic in combat but they always stress me out. The nightkins are also extremely tough to fight. Not sure why they keep attacking me even after I make a deal with their boss.

Some day, one day, we'll say "live life," I know.
ChloeJessica trying not to be so grump from the vtubes Relationship Status: Noddin' my head like yeah
trying not to be so grump
Oct 23rd 2021 at 9:01:21 AM

[up]the regular Nightkin are berserk from Stealth Boy syndrome. Davison is the only one in that basement still sane enough not to attack on sight.

i think once you make a deal with him, it doesn't matter if you kill a couple of his dudes, but if you do it beforehand, he'll fight you too.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay
it's a living
Oct 23rd 2021 at 9:02:01 AM

Edit: Nvm, right, that's it. You want to be a little careful, give Davison what he wants, and hopefully get them to leave. But it's easy for it all to go wrong, by design. The nightkin are... fragile.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 23rd 2021 at 10:04:03 AM

Oct 23rd 2021 at 9:04:07 AM

I imagine that House believes the corrupted and rigged version is the only democracy that exists.

After all, he blames it for nuclear war.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RAlexa21th Cuteness lover from California Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Cuteness lover
Oct 23rd 2021 at 10:11:23 AM

Alright, I rescued the Powder Boys from the Roman's, and used my level up to get the lockpick skill. Then I cracked the Crowder safe, and Boone cracked a melon. Now with another companion I'm heading an assault on the nightkins.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Oct 23rd 2021 at 10:17:50 AM

Some day, one day, we'll say "live life," I know.

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